Mr. Richie Boucher:

-----must we make?" I think about an hour, I can't remember exactly, but there was a third phone call where we were told subordinated debt was being included. I remember being a little bit surprised about that and talking to a couple of my other colleagues, who would have had quite a lot of strategic experience in the markets. We recognised, as a bank, certain of us and I think the bank as a whole was recognising that we would need to generate capital. I had been involved in parts of my career as a ... in specialist work-out teams and we saw that liability management can often generate capital. So, if we're owed ... if we owe a bondholder €100, the bond starts trading in the market at, say, €50-----