Mr. Cormac McCarthy:

Certainly, Chairman, it never crossed ... it never crossed my mind to do anything on the basis of ignoring risk. I think that remuneration structures subsequent to this have taken on board the claw-back matter. But at that point in time in the industry, there was no claw-back, there was no penalty, subsequently or at the time. Risk was a given and accepted and you didn't break ... you didn't break the protocols and the policies.