James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

With respect, I really believe the Deputy has confused what the purpose of the child safeguarding statement is with the Children First guidelines. The Children First guidelines are very clearly set out. They apply to all individuals, childminders or anybody who deals with children, and organisations. The Children First Bill is to place additional legal requirements on certain specified individuals in organisations. The statement we are asking people to put in place is to outline the safeguarding policies of the service provider, including how to manage the risk to children availing of the service, details of vetting and recruitment practices.

For individual childminders to outline their vetting and recruitment practices and other relevant issues is inappropriate and confuses the issue of the Children First guidelines. They are very clear about the obligations on people who mind children, their obligations to the child and how the child must be kept safe. It is a different matter when one has an employer with employees and a premises. In that instance, a whole range of issues will arise in regard to risk, such as how it can be managed and best looked after. That is the obligation we are placing on those people. That is why we define the provider as we do and not as an individual working alone minding children who also has obligations under Children First guidelines. This is a child safeguarding statement for a service and a premises and it is very different. We have tossed the matter back and forth. I have heard the Deputy speak about mandated people which is a separate issue and one that we can certainly look at.

It would not be useful to continue this discussion much further. The amendment is about the obligation to produce a child safeguarding statement. If an agency commissions the service, then we want to be clear that the obligation to provide the child safeguarding statement falls on the provider of the service. A childminder operating alone is an entirely different proposition and I do not believe, from a practical perspective, that it is applicable. The Deputy and I will have to agree to disagree on the matter. I heard what he said about mandated people and I think we shall have to look at that.