Mr. Dermot Gleeson:

Absolutely not, Chairman, I don't believe so. Can I answer that because, again, it's an important question? I believe AIB was solvent then but you'll ask the question, "When did AIB become insolvent?" and I don't know the answer to that. Again, we tend to collapse ... or I can make the mistake of collapsing this fairly short period. The fall in house prices has been 40% to 50% higher in some places. At 30 September 2008, the night of the guarantee, the fall in house prices was 7.7% nationally, 8% if you included apartments. The real trouble was 2009, and I don't know when in 2009-10 AIB became insolvent, because you could mark-to-market six days in a row and get different answers and if you mark-to-market and your assets were down, then you needed more capital, then you had to sell more ... nobody will ever know, I think, because of the interaction of capital requirement rules, the Capital Requirements Directive, and the accountancy rules, when the moment came.