Mr. Frank Daly:

I think they all had experts, and the experts ranged from people who would have had property expertise - as you talk about it - to economists advising the banks. But I ... I think, I mean there was a phrase used at some stage, and I can't remember who used it, that the people in the background who are trying to put a break on the lending ... the people in finance, in audit, in compliance, in the ... the general property experts, that they were kind of boils on the heel of progress of the banks and that lending was the area to be in, and if you were kind of indicating that lending was unwise or that ... I don't think you were listened to very much within the banks. I think they began to believe their own lenders and didn't pay enough attention to the experts that they would have had in the banks. I think they had them. How much of a voice they had within the banks I don't know, but I mean I can only ... we can only comment on that, from what we saw when the loans came across. You would really have to take that up with the banks themselves.