John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Mr. Griffin and his officials are here today because of something that happened in the past in which he was not involved. In the various statements he has made today he spoke about now and then tried to reflect as best he could and defend the Department in the best way he could in terms of what happened. As Mr. Colgan stated, the facts are being presented here and being put on the table. From our point of view, we might say it is a once off issue. I would like various Secretaries General to reflect on the fact that we deal with things that happened many years ago and sometimes we deal with current issues. The Department where Mr. Griffin worked previously had responsibility for the marine and Deputy Deasy and I visited one of the sites concerned with a report we will prepare shortly.

It appears to me that some Departments have a history of extremely poor management, inefficiencies and poor reporting, and this happened with regard to fisheries. It appears Departments are extremely slow to learn anything from their mistakes. I know when one reflects on the past ten years one sees things have changed, but it is hard for someone in business or paying taxes looking in at this meeting to grapple with the €2.3 million being discussed. As I stated earlier, they will wonder whether anyone was fired, sacked or moved. The shocking part of this is that it seems the dogs may bark here on a Thursday morning but the caravan trundles on. In this regard, does Mr. Griffin think it worthwhile to mention to his colleagues after the Cabinet meeting next week that they should invite Mr. McCarthy along to give them a perception of what is expected, not just with regard to correcting the past but with regard to what is expected now and in future because things are changing so rapidly as money is so scarce? It is hard to earn the money to pay the taxes we give to the State and the public expects a greater concentration of effort, efficiency and value for money to be achieved by every Department.

It would help if all of the players at Secretary General level got together to discuss this and try to prevent some of the stuff from happening and make a big effort to put the Committee of Public Accounts out of business. This is my message to them and it should happen. I do not say it lightly. I go through this every Thursday morning with every member and some of what we uncover is shocking. Sometimes it is unfair to the individual opposite, such as is the case of Mr. Griffin because he was not there at the time. He is answering for the past. A greater effort should be made to get ahead of where we are and give support to those working in Departments and give confidence to the tax paying public that at least something absolutely positive and clear is being done about these issues. I know not everything can be prevented, but at least it would give the public the comfort of knowing that we are all working on the same side trying to get something done.