Ms Evelyn Jones:

On the question of structural separation, the implementation of section 9 versus section 17 and whether there is a logical reason in this regard, Professor Barry is correct that there is no logical reason. The reality is that my predecessor, Mr. Jim McCabe, chairman of the National Off-Licence Association, was present at a public meeting in Jury's Hotel Croke Park, at which an appeal was made to the Minister by the chief executives of all of the major multiples in Ireland. They pleaded with him not to enact section 9 and promised to develop a code under section 17 which would have the same impact a section 9 but without the regulation. That is how it happened. We remember it well because it was the day they made us close at 10 p.m. Although sections 9 and 16 were meant to impact on everybody else, nothing happened. That is the reality. I also sat down with subsequent Ministers for Justice and Equality. There is no obvious reason coming across the table, except my own personal impression that the Minister takes guidance from the relevant civil servants within the Department.

On the expense associated with structural separation, I always find it quite amusing because I am a shopkeeper. When a shop is built, the first thing that is put up is a shelf and the first thing that is put beside is another shelf. A structure is not a wall but a shelf, in this case, back-to-back shelving with two turnstiles. If members look at pages 9 and 10 of the appendix, there are architectural drawings showing how simple it is to achieve this.