Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the delegation and thank those who made the presentations.

In her final comment,Ms Doherty, the RTE chairperson, seemed to suggest that her invitation to appear at the committee was based on a presumption of bias. She stated clearly that such oversight would simply not tolerate political bias within the country’s primary public service media organisation. I support public service broadcasting and I think it is incumbent on us to ensure there is no bias or no perception of bias. I think the purpose of Ms Doherty's presence is to set out clearly the procedures, the policies and the audit mechanism that are in place to ensure this does not become a reality. In the minds of some there is a perception of bias. My colleagues set out the issues and I do not intend to rehearse them as we have had some answers and I would like to have more detailed answers from Mr. Nally on some aspects.

It is appropriate that a discussion would take place when issues arise and concerns are raised. For bias to take hold a lack of balance must exist. Where there is balanced representation on television programmes it eliminates the potential for bias to flourish. My colleague, Deputy Michael Moynihan, has outlined a series of six programmes where the Fianna Fáil Party had no representation. Rightly in the minds of some people, that created a perception that something was going on. I am not accusing anybody of political bias. That is very hard to stand up. It is virtually impossible. It might be easier to take the approach of groupthink and suggest there is a presumption that Fianna Fáil does not have skin in that game because it is not relevant to the particular debate or editorial line in that programme. Therefore, it is proposed to introduce some other actors, external people, and people from outside the political arena with only a representative of Government and some elements of what is perceived to be the Opposition. I do not want to get into that because that is an editorial role and whatever skills I have they are not in that area. That is the basis of the conversation we are having.

From our side, it is about a deep regard and understanding of what public service broadcasting should be so that we do not end up on a slippery slope where the perception ultimately becomes a reality in the minds of some. I would not want the delegates to think that I am casting a slur or that we believe that RTE is engaged in political bias for the wrong reasons, because I do not think any member of the organisation would allow that to happen, but over time there is potential. The concern is evidenced by what my colleague, Deputy Michael Moynihan, has said. I would like this to be discussed.

Mr. David Nally mentioned that had Deputy Micheál Martin accepted an invitation to appear on the programme that would have increased the representation and the issue of balance would not have arisen. Perhaps, but if my recollection is correct, the request was to engage in a one-to-one debate on how the country feels about Fianna Fáil right now. To my mind that does not help to eliminate the potential for a perception of somebody with an agenda. I do not push that, but I will park it and let the delegates comment on it, if they so wish. It does not fill me with confidence when a previous programme pitched the leader of the Labour Party against the leader of Sinn Féin for what was a battle on who will form the next main Opposition party. I do not know what dynamic they were trying to focus on but it seemed to exclude the largest, albeit not by too many seats, political party in Opposition. One can have balance too, but that of itself is not enough to eliminate the potential for a perception to exist of groupthink or an agenda being set from a different viewpoint.

What is at issue is the agenda that is set for a programme. Is it about facilitating debate or creating the debate? I am conscious that I am moving into an area of editorial discretion that I have no role in, nor would I want a role in it. I might have a view but it would not be relevant to have it discussed here. I am mindful of this.

I have another example of groupthink. There was a political position taken by the Taoiseach when he said the next election would effectively be a choice for the Irish people between him, as Taoiseach or Deputy Gerry Adams as Taoiseach. The poll taken that weekend after those comments were made largely did not support that contention but a week or two later, there was a poll on the front page of the Sunday Independent, where Sinn Féin had risen dramatically by eight or ten points and Independents had gone down. For people who track and observe polls, I do not want to suggest it was a rogue poll, but it was certainly well out of kilter with any other polling that was done. Interestingly, for the following two days, RTE headlined that particular position quite aggressively. I throw that out because it adds to a perception in the minds of some, although I am not going to get back into the Robert Troy issue as I felt strongly enough about that, as many did at the time.

It is a question of how one manages the balance. I have taken what Mr. Kevin Bakhurst has said on the updated journalistic guidelines and that is good, but one would like to think there was an audit trail. Mr. Bakhurst referred to the numbers and charts presented but one would like to see a regular mechanism and know that somebody is monitoring it to ensure that the question of balance is addressed. If one has a representation on a programme, he or she can rebut arguments. I am not going into the detail of what my colleagues discussed as to whether Eamon Dunphy constitutes a Sinn Féin representative.

If there is somebody on to challenge it then I am happy that we get our side out. If we fail to do this, if we have a bad interview then that is tough but we need to be in play. I dislike monitoring programmes but I often believe that in the desire to have an element of levity in some of the weekend magazine type programmes there is a political dimension and there can be strong political debate, but it is not balanced. It may involve just a Government representative or whatever. I believe that more could be done around those programmes to ensure RTE strikes that balance and has the opportunity to level it out, particularly in the run-up to an election.