Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Does the Minister agree that a meaningful reform programme relating to the electoral system and the Oireachtas should go hand in hand with the evolution of the electoral commission? It is clear that they must interact and most people agree that we do not have a reform programme currently. As a Senator, I was bewildered that the only idea, which I did not consider to be meaningful, that the Government had was a referendum to abolish one of the Houses of Parliament. That came as a surprise to many people given, at the same time, the Dáil virtually remained unchanged. The list of what are cited as reforms is minimalist and we have to go back to the drawing board again. Many areas need to considered for radical reform.

The electoral process is the responsibility of several Departments and agencies and 31 local authorities and it is clear that it is not fit for purpose. This major issue needs to be examined. I fully agree with the Minister's comment that reform should be based on a consensus among all political parties because of the very nature of what is involved and because of how fragile the democratic process can be at times. The electoral registers that existed years ago were based on information provided by rate collectors and they missed very few people back then. We were happy with the electoral register but nowadays the names of people who left the country years ago and so on are to be found on it and, therefore, we have a messy registration system. That plays into the results at elections and there is an urgency about this matter.

The Minister invited the committee to make recommendations. How broad will the consultative process be and how far will it go? A timetable is vital for this. There is a feeling that kicking this to touch is the way go, and this has applied to all governments, but that is wrong. We have to be serious about a definite timetable as to how this will be done. Constituencies and counties have been cannibalised. One only has to go to the local pub and speak to someone to realise how confused people have become. Deputy Stanley had to check, for instance, where Offaly starts and Tipperary ends. That is the case throughout the country. I do not question the Constituency Commission because it had exceptionally good people on it but its recommendations have not appealed to people on the ground. They build up loyalty to their counties and constituencies but when out of the blue, the commission proposes changes, the county loyalty is gone. I do not have answers to this but a root and branch examination of how these decisions come about how they fit in with the democratic process is needed.

Perhaps answers are immediately available, but the man and woman in the street certainly require definite answers as to why this is happening.

It is important to look at how business is conducted, which is why I state reform and the idea of an electrical commission must go hand in hand. Nobody in the Oireachtas feels happy with the amount of material which must be examined and digested to ensure it leads to what is best for the democratic system. This may be an internal issue within the Civil Service or the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission. Anybody looking at it for the first time would certainly feel it needs to be examined to see whether it is working. In my younger days I worked in a county council, and I remember experts being brought in to measure output. They monitored the work to the level of measuring how long it took to walk between a desk and a filing cabinet. The same happened with the workers on the roads; their work was measured and a bonus scheme was provided. This was done in a fundamental way at that level of administration. Here, at the pinnacle of government responsibility, it needs to be examined also. The Minister gently shook his head when I suggested there was not really any great reform taking place. We should measure this reform and outline it.

To return to consultation, the people with whom we must consult include those who have the vote. If we do not get the timetable right there will be no electoral commission and we will continue with multifaceted involvement in the electoral process from Departments, agencies and local authorities.

Nobody is fully certain that the manner in which the count system takes place is above question. It needs to be examined. We have seen cases where questions have been asked. If the issue exists now it existed 20 or 30 years ago also. I do not recommend this, but rather than pushing it to the backburner again would it be possible to take a piecemeal approach? Could the question of the register be looked at immediately? Could the accounting system and the transfer of votes be examined immediately? Could defining the constituencies be revisited without waiting? Does the Minister feel this is a five, ten or 15 year process? He will not see it in the life of the present Oireachtas, but does he envisage it definitely happening in the life of the next Oireachtas?