Ms Patricia Callan:

Yes; I think it merits the exercise. If the low pay commission were to do this exercise every year, and we are satisfied that the process is transparent and independent and that it is using evidence-based policy making, that is something we could certainly live with. The reason we have taken the decision to talk about a freeze at this moment in time is that we are living in exceptional times. It is amazing how quickly people have forgotten what we have come through in the past seven years. Owner-managers have not forgotten quite so quickly because they have a lot more sleepless nights than the average person. They are very risk-averse. When we talk about banks and funding now, the banks keep telling us that people are shattered and that the problem in terms of demand is that people are so risk-averse. We could have all sorts of other discussions about that, but there is an element of truth in it. What people really want is to feel that they have security, stability and, particularly at this time, foreseeability in terms of business costs, which are critical to one's long-term investment and decision-making.

That is critical to whether I would hire somebody. If there is a threat that the minimum wage will be €9.65 in a number of months' time, should I already have stopped hiring? Has this discussion stopped job creation? That is the untold aspect. The worst thing in life an owner-manager has to do is to let somebody go. Making people redundant is traumatic for owner-managers, so they will not put themselves in a position in which they have to do that if it is not necessary.