John Lyons (Dublin North West, Labour) | Oireachtas source

One of the disadvantages of being last to contribute is that most of the questions have been asked. I agree with Mr. O'Brien that one of the main issues in regard to household income is jobless households, but I must also state the obvious, namely, that earning €8.65 an hour is a significant contributor to income inequality. It also affects a person's opportunity to not just survive but be part of society. With all due respects to Ms McElwee, it is no consolation that approximately the same percentage of the population is on €8.65 an hour as before 2007.

The minimum wage of €8.65 an hour is not an acceptable wage for anybody. I recognise we look at the world from a different viewpoint and I respect that Mr. O'Brien and Ms McElwee are here as IBEC representatives. I speak from a different side. For example, we know the VAT reduction for the hospitality sector cost the taxpayer a significant amount. We will hear from unions that come before us at a later date that no negotiations were held on issues such as the nature of work rather than pay alone so as to ensure better quality conditions for these people. We know that some people in the hospitality sector have refused to engage in registered employment agreements, REAs, or joint labour committees, JLCs, which might ensure a better quality of life.

As was said earlier, the issue is not just about wages, but about everything else also. I am disappointed with IBEC's response on this and almost feel there is a conspiracy in this regard.

Deputy Calleary had asked if there are any figures on how many IBEC members have employees who are paid €8.65 per hour. I assume that there are some people who do. It is great to hear people talking about wage increases. Surveys have shown that more people are expecting wage increases and that employers are going to do this. We know that is happening. They are the types of employers who have a good social responsibility attached to the way that they treat their workers.

The current estimate of people employed on the minimum wage is 4.7%. I respect that there are employers who cannot pay because of the circumstances they find their business in right now but to call a spade a spade, there are businesses who employ people and who would employ them at less than what they pay them now if they could. It is not acceptable to sugar coat the situation and say that does not exist. That is what the issue is about here today. I am not concerned with people on middle or higher incomes getting more this year. I recognise that Government policy on this is required, and that is being looked at. One of those significant pieces in the jigsaw is income rates. It is not acceptable for anybody to earn €330 a week; it cannot buy anything. Even if it does provide 20% more purchasing power now than it did seven years ago or pre-crash, that is still very little.

I will finish on this point. Nobody here earns close to the minimum wage. There has been very little discussion about the real life implications of what it really means for these people. I respect employers and acknowledge that they have a massive social responsibility but we cannot escape from the fact that if the minimum wage was reduced by €2 tomorrow there will be some employers who are represented by IBEC and others who would decrease the wages they pay immediately. Those people are the reason we are here today and why the introduction of some sort of regulation is necessary, to protect people who are in such vulnerable situations.

I will leave it at that. I do not expect comments back because most of the questions have been asked and answered. I want to make that point. The real conversation here today is about the people who earn €8.65 per hour. We do fund work; we fund work for wealthy companies that are well able to pay and give people full-time, 40-hour contracts per week but choose to give them less than that for the benefit of the company rather than the worker. Nobody here can produce documents to show that but we all know that exists. It would be a shame to have this conversation without reference to the reality that people are living and who we hear from on a day-to-day basis.