John Lyons (Dublin North West, Labour) | Oireachtas source

Both delegates but Mr. Fielding, in particular, might respond to the following comment. The Low Pay Commission in the United Kingdom has for the 15th year recommended an increase in the minimum wage. The other day it recommended a 20 pence increase, which the Confederation of British Industry, CBI, a body somewhat equivalent to the one represented here, broadly welcomed. I recognise that the Irish Small and Medium Enterprises Association, ISME, is not the same type of body, but it is a similar one and I am curious to know why a body in the United Kingdom that represents something similar would broadly welcome a recommended increase in the minimum wage, while Mr. Fielding, from what I believe I heard him say here, does not agree with the minimum wage and believes it should be up to the State to redistribute wealth.

I recognise that not all businesses are thriving and that many people that ISME represents are finding it difficult to make ends meet. I do not believe any of us is talking about a business that cannot afford to pay anything more than what it is paying, but let us be realistic. There are businesses that fall into the category represented by ISME, as well as businesses in the category that employs more than 250 employees that are reaping profits. I believe in the basic concept that if a business is profitable and workers help to make it profitable, there is nothing wrong with ensuring some of them share in that by receiving a dividend, perhaps in the form of a better wage. I am not talking about people on the median wage of €19 per hour; I am only interested in this context in those who are on a wage of €8.65 per hour. It is my genuine belief that if the State did not have a minimum threshold, in many cases some workers in some of these categories would be paid less. The State gets involved in redistributing wealth. We co-share in the contribution to salaries. Approximately €300 million per year is paid to people who work full time through family income supplement. On top of this, we recognise that some employers would like to take on additional staff but are not at the stage where they could fully pay to recruit an additional person. That is the reason we have introduced initiatives such as the JobsPlus scheme. Therefore, I do not believe it is only the State that is responsible for redistributing wealth. Wealth is created in other sectors. If a company in the category ISME represents is profitable, what is wrong with it paying its employees a little more?