Eric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour) | Oireachtas source

Following our previous experience with witnesses, I came in here of the view that we were dealing with a complex question with many ifs and buts. However, I am sorry to say I have been made deeply depressed by the contributions, particularly when our little dream that the referendum may not be held is, according to Mr. Aiken's position, unrealistic, notwithstanding that the election has not yet occurred and the Tories have not yet won, and all the ifs and buts that go with the United Kingdom's internal dynamics in terms of Scotland and, to a lesser extent, Wales.

We were also dealing with the notion that, no matter what happens, there must be a significant amount of negotiations before the fact, even if the Tories win the United Kingdom election. I do not know how long that might take. Presumably it would take years, because we would be talking about a considerable process of unravelling. What will happen with the internal dynamic, for instance, within Northern Ireland, with the Unionists and Sinn Féin, and with Northern Ireland vis-à-visthe majority of Scottish MPs? There are still a lot of balls in the air.

Frankly, the debate about Europe needed Greece like it needed a hole in the head. Would they agree that those eurosceptics in Britain and across Europe might be taking solace from what is happening with Greece? My worry is that there are so many people who are now becoming eurosceptics that they are seeing immigration. My question on immigration is as follows. Are UKIP, the Conservatives and the British people more concerned about the free movement of people from within the Union of 28 than what they perceive to be the influx around the Mediterranean from North Africa, of, for instance, Iraqis and Libyans? There are hundreds of thousands of people trying to get to Europe. Of course, Britain is conscious of its rail link with France and the horrors of significant numbers of stateless persons all trying to get across, either on ferries or on lorries, to Britain. Is the worry immigration from outside or from within the Union? We are in a horrible situation of an unstable world. There is Russian expansionism in Ukraine, potential Russian expansionism in Latvia, and unstable relations from Moldova to God knows where. Sadly, there are a considerable amount of people on the move - more than ever there has been. Of course, Greece has been seen to be the leaky border that facilitates the through flow. I am rambling. Italy, Australia and Japan, amongst others, are taking specific steps on controlling immigration and the movement of people. I note the horrors that would occur if the worst should be realised.

I congratulate the Chairman of this committee on engaging in this very theoretical but very serious debate. How should the Government now engage, and with whom? Should it start with bilateral talks with our 27 colleagues in Europe? Should it start engaging immediately with the British Tories, or should it start engaging with the Commission? How can we now be sufficiently proactive in engaging with the key players so we will not be left guessing the outcome for Ireland if the United Kingdom decides to leave the Union?