Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Wednesday, 19 November 2014

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport and Communications

National Postcode System: (Resumed) Discussion

9:50 am

Mr. Liam Duggan:

I thank the committee for the opportunity to address it. I have a brief presentation and I am aware that I last to speak before members put their questions. I want to give them a sense of what Capita is and of our credentials. Capita is the largest business process re-engineering company in Europe and we employ more than 64,000 people. Our annual turnover is just under €5 billion for 2014 and when we announce our results it will be more than €5 billion and our profitability after tax will be in excess of €500 million. We are a FTSE 500 company and ranked 52nd in the FTSE 100. We are larger as an organisation than Marks & Spencer, easyJet, and Sainsburys. Roughly 50% of our revenue comes from public sector contracts, so we have a good deal of experience in dealing with major contracts and we have over 30 years experience of delivering major projects of this nature. We are now the largest business process re-engineering company in Ireland. We are also the highest rated asset management company in Europe. We employ more than 2,000 people in Ireland and an additional 1,050 people in Northern Ireland. Thus, more than 3,000 people employed by Capita on the island of Ireland. The jobs that we create in Ireland are high-end jobs. We have people in financial services, insurance, IT and various other roles. Some of the contracts we operate in Ireland are with NAMA, the insurance industry, Aviva, Prudential, MetLife. We have a contract with the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, with the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine. Our locations in Ireland are in Dublin, Kildare and Cork.

The next slide illustrates the implementation programme. We have a methodology we use in implementing programmes. There is a good deal of detail behind this. This sets out the high-end programme in a pictorial form.

The issues we trying to address in Ireland are those that Ms Liam Duggan, Ms Patricia Cronin and Mr. Eamon Molloy outlined. The issue we have in Ireland is finding locations or addresses. It is particularly an issue in rural Ireland with regard to those non-unique addresses. I have a few illustrations that outline that in more detail. It is an issue mainly but not exclusively in rural areas. In rural areas, townlands are rarely signposted and the boundaries are not visible. Boundaries often overlap and, compounding that, there are multiple locations with the same placenames such as Kilmore, Rathmore and Borris. To compound that further, in some instances there are two or three locations called Kilmore. Finding locations is difficult in Ireland. As Ms Patricia Cronin outlined, there is also the vanity issue in terms of mistaken addresses where people are identified in one postal district or one townland when they are in another one. Also, some towns and cities cross county borders such as Athlone which is both in Country Roscommon and County Westmeath.

The next slide illustrates what we are talking about in terms of a non-unique address. It shows a townland in County Meath that is roughly halfway between Slane and Navan. It is known as Gormanlough and the next townland to the west is Causestown and the next one to the east is Stackallen. There are no signposts. Villages tend to have a signpost indicating one is entering the village and another way indicating one is leaving the village but townlands do not have such signposts. It is rare to have a signpost that identifies where the townland is. At the south of this illustration there is the main road between Navan and Slane and the signpost that leads one to that road points one in the direction of Kells but there is no mention on it of Gormanlough, Stackallen or Causestown. Therefore, finding locations is difficult. If one finds Gormanlough, it is not obvious from the road which are addresses and which are outbuildings. When people are talking about structured or sequential codes, sequential codes may work in a city where there are streets with numbers on the premises but even with that there are some difficulties because some streets have even numbers on one side and odd numbers on the other side. There is the matter of how to sequence to provide for that. Finding addresses in towns and cities is not the issue, rather it is finding addresses in this sort of location. Trying to come up with a sequence for this type of location is impossible. Where does one start and finish, given that the townland is not demarked and one does not know what is a building that is an address that one will want to find and what is an outbuilding. Trying to build a structure in a sequence around that is impossible.

The next illustration sets out the townland as it will be when we will introduce Eircodes. Each building will have a unique identifier or eircode. A person living in Gormanlough will be able to say this is my Eircode and one can verify that Eircode is in Gormanlough and it will also give the X and Y co-ordinates for the location. If a service delivery person is delivering a package or goods or a person from the emergency services is calling to the location, that eircode will bring them to the exact location. It does solve the problem posed by the non-unique addresses in Ireland.

There has been talk about structures and it has been asked why can it not be obvious in the code what the structure is. If we put a structure in a code, it will suit one specific industry - it may suit the logistics industry, but it will not necessarily suit other industries. The next slide shows an illustration of County Kildare. It sets out the district electoral divisions and Garda divisions for Kildare, which are difference. By starting with an individual address point and the GPS co-ordinates, the X and Y of that, one can build up any area information one wants. One can put in one's own boundaries and therefore every service delivery requirement is catered for. One decides what the boundaries are and the database of addresses and corresponding eircodes will give the demarcations to suit that. If one wants to deal in counties, district electoral divisions, or Garda subdivisions, one can do that and have them crossing borders. One builds one's sequence to suit oneself from the database of codes and co-ordinates.

The next slide is another illustration. It is not easy to see but it is a town and the red lines mark the district electoral division areas of the town and the picture on the right shows those buildings that fall within that district electoral division area marked out. In a database one would have those subdivided and one could illustrate that on a wall and have the map on a wall with one's particular small areas marked out - it would not be predetermined for one. We have a website with information for the general public and also information for businesses advising them what they need to do to get ready.

We are engaged in consultation processes with individual companies and industry bodies.

I thank committee members for their time.

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