Joe O'Reilly (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Yes, counties, and specifically the county in which I live, the main employer is agri-related food processing, and the entire agriculture industry is centred there. We have to work on the green energy agenda. It has to be central, and we have to sustain that. We have made great progress on developing a culture of recycling in this country, and that has resulted in great progress being made in that area. I remember when it first came on the agenda in local government, of which I was a member years ago, it was almost a foreign concept for consumers. That is no longer the case. People have adapted to the different bins very well and to the entire recycling process, but we also need to move on the green energy agenda.

In the light of scientific development and progress, we will have to keep the question of nuclear energy under review.

I do not say we must opt for nuclear energy, as such, but science has overtaken a number of the difficulties that surrounded it in the past. The methods for dealing with nuclear waste, for example, have improved. We cannot put nuclear energy off the agenda if we accept the problem that exists with climate change. The UN has left us in no doubt about that. Anecdotal and experiential evidence of climate change exists and that behoves us to examine recycling, energy and conservation and to keep green energy on the agenda. It further behoves us to look fairly and squarely at nuclear energy as an option, if it could be done safely and the waste issue were to be addressed. Considerable progress has been made on waste. I do not wish to misquote the former Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, but if I understood him correctly, he said he had no issue with importing energy from countries that use nuclear energy. We must examine the issue. I do not say we have to develop nuclear energy but we must not shy from examining it. The old arguments no longer hold.

I agree with the basic thesis presented that we should broaden the tax base. I would be the first within my parliamentary party and elsewhere to be critical of many aspects of Irish Water, the delivery of services and related issues. No one can deny, however, that the basic objective of Irish Water and the property tax is to broaden the tax base. There are those who like to parade themselves as champions of social justice, a more equitable and broader tax base, based on taxes other than of the traditional industrial worker and lower paid civil servants who paid everything in the past, but if one wants to champion that cause, one cannot logically do so and not be in favour of broadening the tax base. One cannot logically be against the property tax and water charges, willy-nilly, and then support the proposition that we should have a broader tax base and more equity. That is not sustainable. There is much hypocrisy on the issue.

I welcome the proposal in the submission that we should broaden the tax base. That is precisely what the Government is doing, albeit in a flawed fashion on occasion, and with a need for improvement and the introduction of more consumer-friendly aspects. The purpose of the property tax and water charges is to broaden the tax base. The aim is to take the burden off the backs that traditionally bore the brunt of tax such as industrial workers and lower paid civil servants. There is no equivocation on the matter. One cannot parade oneself on the issue as some seem to do, namely, as a champion of equity, social progress and an egalitarian society where the poor are to the fore. I refer to people in certain political organisations and groups who then say they are against all forms of taxation that would broaden the tax base. That is not a sustainable or honest approach. The two things are incompatible. One would not need a degree in logic to see the positions are mutually incompatible. If one works on the assumption that there is no magic source of money; it is incompatible with social justice to say one should not broaden the tax base.

I say well done to the witnesses in that regard. In their response, could they say that what we are doing with property tax and water charges, flawed and all as they are in their implementation, is the correct economic strategy to look after the poorer sections of society? It behoves people such as they to give leadership in that regard.