Ms Anne Mulhall:

Some object to the comparison with the outrage about Magdalen laundries and mother and baby homes. Imagine sitting in on a committee such as this and asking how we can reform and retain such a system. As far as we are concerned, this system of institutionalisation cannot be reformed. Ms Conlon and Mr. Ng'ang'a spoke about this during the last session - one cannot reform a system such as this. There is such potential for the abuse of power written into this form of institutionalisation that it cannot be salvaged. Our position, as I have said, is that we want to see a return to pre-2000 conditions when people who came to the country to seek refuge had access to the same rights and supports from the State as anybody else.

Mr. Musekiwa and Ms Mokoba should be answering the question posed, but I want to address a couple of comments made by Deputy Michael Healy-Rae. He may not have meant it, but he implied that people came here to freeload off the system and that if Europe did something about its murderous immigration and deportation policies, people would suddenly flock to Ireland. There is no evidence that would happen. People come here because they want to make lives for themselves. That is what we hear time and again and what Mr. Musekiwa and Ms Mokoba have said about their experience of direct provision, namely, that the worst things about it are not being able to work, study and forge one's own life in the way one wants to do.

I refer to the position of ADI on deportation in the light of what was said. It is a fact that the treacherous routes people have to take to get to Europe to claim asylum are the result of Europe's immigration policies and procedures. In the past decade tens of thousands have died because of this. The European Union is the most dangerous place in the world for asylum seekers to reach to claim asylum. This goes against the its vision of itself as a tolerant and free place, but it did not represent this for the people who died while trying to come it. So far this year, 4,000 people have died while trying to reach to Europe to seek refuge. That is a fact.