Mr. John Dolan:

Ms Hayes raised an important issue, but there are very difficult choices to be made. I will not say that the need of a young jobseeker for experience and money is not a big deal. It is a big deal. However, the jobseeker has a hope. Although it is the ambition of Government to be back to full employment by 2020, that is never-never land for someone who is currently unemployed. The disabled person is, leaving aside the payments for younger jobseekers, on the same contingency level of payment as a jobseeker. However, their situation is not a contingency, it is permanent. That is a problem. We have issues with Intreo and others, where young people with disabilities cannot get into programmes to start doing their training and development. This contrasts with other jobseekers, who do hopefully get those opportunities in general, so it is quite complex.

Middle-aged heads of households do not know which way to turn. They have children on one hand and ageing parents at the other end of the spectrum, so they are under pressure. Some of them might also have disability in the family; Dr. McCarthy gave some statistics there. Some of those people will have a child born to them next year with a disability, some will hear that their mum or dad has Alzheimer's disease. All these pressures come in on top of each other. It is complex because they are not separate issues. Mr. Timmins referred to older people and disability and while not every older person is disabled there is a lot of it around.

This question of funding services versus having a few bob in your pocket is very tempting and colleagues have been very clear about that. People with disabilities cannot bypass the fact that they need certain services. One cannot buy the services of a personal assistant for an hour or half an hour with a fiver a week. The reality is that the public services are in poor shape although people are doing their best to keep them going. People do not have confidence in them either. That is why we need to give a practical sign that we are trying to turn that around.

I very much appreciate the attendance at this meeting. There has been a particularly strong attendance from the Labour Party members today, who are part of the Government, and that is appreciated and understood.