Mr. Derek Iceton:

Deputy Heydon asked three questions, first I will respond to his question on the pitfalls - unless the structure is right, we are definitely at risk. I see where the British Horseracing Authority in Britain is worried that not enough horses are being produced to have a full racing programme. One only has to look at America to see what has happened in the past 12 years, where the funding mechanism was wrong and betting went all over the shop. The number of races in America has reduced from 53,000 in a year to 37,000 last year. The average number of runners for a race is now under seven, when one is looking for eight runners for an each way bet.

If one is to have competitive racing, breeders must breed horses and must make some money if they are to so do in the first instance.

As for the foal levy about which Deputy Heydon asked me, at present it is approximately €1.25 million. The breeding industry is unique in that it is self-regulated and so for argument's sake, what pertains to the regulation and registration of horses internationally is a self-regulated industry. We meet other bodies and for instance, Mr. Shane O'Dwyer and I were in Chile a couple of months ago. We need funding to make sure of the rules on regulation and the control of the industry, as well as for events such as this meeting, while working on behalf of the industry. We need some money from the foal levy and get approximately €350,000 of that. We give approximately €400,000 per year into Irish Thoroughbred Marketing. Members might consider that although we have an industry worth €1 billion, we are spending little more than €1 million to promote it worldwide. Just to sidetrack, when Kerrygold rebranded Dairygold last year, which was the number one butter on the Irish market, it spent €1.5 million in so doing. Yet here we are with a prime industry and have €1 million with which to promote horse racing throughout the world. It is a pitiful amount of money. However, of the €1.1 million being put into Irish Thoroughbred Marketing, the breeders themselves are contributing €400,000. In addition, we are putting approximately €800,000 into the Irish Equine Centre because the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine for many reasons has pulled back from providing diagnostic services on behalf of the industry. Obviously, our industry needs fast response times and we have an equine centre that probably is one of the greatest centres of veterinary excellence in the world. For example, were I to send a blood sample to it this morning at 12 noon, a full biochemical report will come back to me by 3 p.m. That is the purpose of the levy. We are not afraid to put a lot of money into this business to look after ourselves and then we have the European Breeders' Fund, EBF, with which the standing farmers put a lot of money into prize money.

Third, Deputy Heydon and Senator O'Neill asked about representation. Basically, we seek a position of right. I have outlined how our association is completely democratically elected across the Thirty-two Counties within regions and so on. Moreover, we are self-renewing every two years. I would like the breeders' seat on the proposed body to be given to the Irish Thoroughbred Breeders Association. We are the only representative body for the breeders and would like the person we put forward to be the person who is accepted. I presume the same argument goes for my other colleagues sitting at the various tables in this committee room.

Deputy Penrose asked about money going into Horse Racing Ireland, HRI. Were it properly funded, HRI would not need to be scalping the owners as often as it does. Owners are paying 30% of the prize money and are paying a huge percentage of the administration of racing. Ultimately, the owners basically are paying to put on the show and they need some amelioration on how they are being scalped along the way in respect of the costs of just having and training a horse. As the Deputy observed, one at least has some say in what one pays the trainers but these add-on expenses are making it quite difficult.