Mr. Phil Flaherty:

To some extent, what comes back in terms of the proposals will condition some of that. There would be an order of magnitude that we would see as being important in 2015 in order that sufficient scale might be achieved. Obviously, how much of that will be deployed will depend on the strength of what comes back in the context of the proposals that are actually put forward.

On the sustainability criteria, I agree with the point made in respect of the transferability of skills. There is a need to ensure that people who pursue apprenticeships are supported with regard to the type of foundation skills - such as literacy, numeracy, the ability to communicate, etc. - they require. There must also be clear progression routes, both occupationally, in the context of where one can go in the labour market, and academically, regarding where one can go within the education and training system. That is going to be important and it will probably have implications in the context of sustainability and how narrowly defined apprenticeships might be. I refer here to not having apprenticeships that are very narrowly focused in order that those who pursue them will not be left vulnerable. A key aspect will be that progression opportunities - both laterally and vertically - will be set out.

I will now deal with some of the points Senator Jim D'Arcy made. On the apprenticeship charge, I will to some extent give the classic Civil Service answer in that it was a budgetary decision taken by Government in the context of all of the savings the Department needed to make in 2014. In the context of whether it has acted as a discouragement, we very much hope not. We hope that people would see the value of apprenticeship and of the training apprentices receive. A person who pursues an apprenticeship is employed and receives a wage. He or she also receives an allowance the periods during which he or she is off the job. That allowance would be a long way north of what would be payable under, for example, a student grant scheme, which is worth bearing in mind.

The Senator inquired about education and training boards which do not have training centres. There is an ongoing process in this regard. Like the Oireachtas, the Department is seized of the need to ensure that this does not become a huge bone of contention.