Mr. Phil Flaherty:

I will try to be as comprehensive as possible though some of the questions are more relevant to other witnesses. Deputy McConalogue raised the issue of international models and there will be varying views on this as we can learn from some aspects and others represent too great a cultural leap. The review group did not move towards the formal reintroduction of vocational and academic streams in upper second level schools. Vocational routes exist in the leaving certificate programme but, from an institutional perspective, people in Ireland do not attend a school based on vocational or academic inclinations, unlike people in countries like Germany.

There has been a long-standing concern on the part of parents that there should be a very broad offering across vocational and academic subjects at senior cycle in post-primary schools. Colleagues from SOLAS will confirm the figure but I understand that well above 70% of people who enter apprenticeships complete the leaving certificate. At present, therefore, apprenticeship is very much a post-secondary option. Of course, the position varies across trades. In that context, the entry rates among those who have only completed junior cycle in secondary school are higher in respect of certain trades.

Early school leaving is obviously a big issue for all countries in the European Union. Ireland's performance in this regard has improved somewhat and the rate here - less than 10% - is below the overall EU target for 2020. We want to reduce that rate even further nationally. Vocational opportunities and apprenticeships are a means of ensuring that there are options available for people who learn best by doing and they certainly make a contribution in terms of reducing the rate of early school leaving. It should be noted that the general picture in this regard has been improving for a good many years.

To return to the question on international models, we are of the view - I believe IBEC would probably agree with us - that great opportunities exist. A number of companies with operations in Ireland originated in countries with strong apprenticeship traditions. The European Alliance for Apprenticeships has indicated a willingness to engage more fully with the Irish apprenticeship system, especially if we expand the range of sectors in which it operates. The experience of companies such as Siemens, SAP and others in the context of how they are set up to deal with apprenticeships is something from which we can learn. The labour markets in countries such as Germany and Austria are highly regulated and the concept that, under law, people must have specific qualifications in order to undertake particular activities in the economy is very embedded. This clearly supports an apprenticeship system because if a person is obliged to obtain a qualification in order to become a baker or whatever, there is a model of training in place to support him or her in doing so. That would be a very big leap for Ireland. We have a pretty liberal labour market and the flexibility which exists within it is seen, as least by some, as being of assistance in attracting foreign direct investment among other things.

The type of regulation to which I refer supports the apprenticeship systems in Germany and Austria. In addition, the chambers model in those countries is very strong and allows the concept of apprenticeship to be supported and led by enterprise. The structures upon which apprenticeship can be built in Ireland are probably becoming stronger. What the Irish Medical Devices Association, which Mr. Doherty represents, has done is a good example of how a sector can be organised around training, Skillnets and things of that nature. We are, however, a long way away from a situation where companies would be legally obliged to be members of chambers and to contribute to them by supporting training models. Nonetheless, we have a great deal to learn from countries such as Germany and Austria in the context of how to set up an apprenticeship model in a given area, how to define a curriculum, etc. There is, of course, no need to reinvent the wheel in many respects because being a process engineer in Ireland is not necessarily any different to being one in Germany or Austria. If curricula have been defined in particular areas, we can use them.

Deputy O'Brien and others were correct to state that it is going to be important that we make resources available in 2015 and beyond to act as seed capital in the context of the development of apprenticeship. There will be some resource implications this year from the perspective of personnel being available to support the apprenticeship council with regard to the work it will be obliged to do. At this stage, I cannot say much more other than to indicate that this will form part of the Department's budgeting arrangements.