Áine Collins (Cork North West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

That is not what I asked. My point is that all of this happened in 2009. I accept that what happened before then was all different. However, the HSE was put in place and a big change happened in 2009 in respect of how these organisations were to be run and what their public pay, which was to be brought into line, was to be. However it appears as though this decision was made and the section 38 organisations have been left to deal with this on their own. I accept the majority of their money comes from the public purse but they are separate legal entities.