Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I will refer to the glass bottle site, where there was a suggested conflict of interest. This suggested conflict of interest was discussed at Oireachtas committee meetings, but it was discussed years after what happened. People were involved in both areas at the same time. I am not suggesting that something similar will happen here but the Minister is allowing for a situation where somebody would need to find out and then report them to the ethics committee. The best way to prevent this happening is by having disclosure and if one is not making the information publicly available to have it available centrally within the agency. The reason a Member of the Oireachtas has to declare his or her interests annually is because the public can go and say, "I know such a Member is involved in that company but I look at the annual report and see he has invested the State assets heavily in the development of X, Y or Z , in which his partner is a shareholder or so on". Most of the disclosures that have come out in the past have not come out as a result of the great interrogation techniques of the Minister or the Department of Finance.

They have come to light because of people such as investigative journalists and ordinary members of the public. If the agency does not hold a register and if it is not publicly available the power of people to examine these issues is taken away. While they would be subject to the Ethics in Public Office Act and other laws, such as company law, it makes no difference unless they are found out first and foremost. The legislation signals that someone who is in contravention of the Act is not automatically dismissed from the committee. The legislation provides that if one is elected to Leitrim County Council, one is automatically off the agency. It also provides that if one is conflicted and continues to be conflicted and do not inform anybody about one's confliction and continue to be involved in the decision where one is biased on this issue, one may still be able to serve on the agency. If one gets elected to Leitrim County Council one is out on one's neck. It makes no sense. A terrible signal is being sent to people who may, for reasons right or wrong, be conflicted and hopefully the Minister will never have to examine the areas I am examining. History tells us we have had rogues in Irish society and they may infiltrate the NTMA in years to come and may be involved in decision making that would be in contravention of the ethics register which means that somebody who would be associated with it would receive a benefit from it.