John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Before we move from that issue, I just want to say that I agree with everything that has been said by Deputy Murphy. The project itself is one of the best examples of how dysfunctional the whole process is in respect of this type of project - local authorities versus central funding and so on. I understand Mr. McCarthy's position. He is part of it but not part of that type of position. At the same time, while he says it is not money from central Government, it is taxpayers' money. It is ratepayers' money. There is no facility at council level to give this issue the type of scrutiny it deserves. County managers generally plough on with projects like this and the elected members have very little input, as Deputy Murphy said, in terms of who will stop this project. I agree with everything he has said. It concerns me greatly that the type of reform that is needed to address issues such as this has not happened.

When Mr. Watt from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform appeared before us, if my memory serves me correctly, he generally agreed that the local authority and its spend should come under the remit of the Comptroller and Auditor General in some guise because there is no forum like this one locally where value for money audits or reports or even the audit itself are debated in public. That is a weakness. It is a weakness of management and controls on money and there is an issue around how that money was spent.

I would ask the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform about how this money is being spent. Surely it must be concerned and surely it must see the need for some intervention to bring clarity to this and to possibly suggest ways of examining the spend that has already occurred and the spend that may happen. It must see the need for the project itself to be subjected to some type of central Government and administrative oversight and scrutiny. I would ask the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform to engage with local government or these four managers who are being spoken about here to determine what exactly is happening so that someone takes responsibility for the issue itself and how it is progressing, particularly given the concerns expressed by Deputy Murphy, who has raised this issue here on numerous occasions. I am asking the Department to give us a written note on how it sees it. I do not expect the Department to respond today but I do expect a written report or commentary on how it sees this issue relative to public expenditure, because, taking all of the positions away, it is taxpayers' money that is central to this, and people want to know. As I understand it, from comments made by Deputy Murphy, councillors are also concerned about it. I ask that the Department examine the structures, who intervenes and who can intervene and give us its views on all of this in correspondence so that we can pursue the matter further.