Dara Murphy (Cork North Central, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I welcome both witnesses. To contradict what the previous speaker said, people are not disengaging more. We had a higher turnout in the elections. It was marginal and still low but it is inaccurate to say there is greater disengagement. It is probably more accurate to say engagement could be greater. While there has been a strengthening of some of the eurosceptic and far-right groups such as the European Conservatives and Reformists, ECR, which would be very damaging to Irish interests in the positions they take, the reality is that the European People's Party, EPP, is still the biggest party and the Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats, S&D, is the second biggest. In terms of the narrative we seek, we forget sometimes that in Europe the centre very much won, as in Ireland. Fine Gael was the winner of the European elections.

While some of the parties on the other side have done a little better, they are still very much in the minority when it comes to what the people of Europe want. If we combine the EPP and the S&D membership of the Parliament, we can see they have a huge majority, and we can add ALDE to that also. The people of Europe have expressed the view collectively that the European Union's centre way of operating got a huge vote of approval from the people of Europe. It is also a concern, and something we all have to take on board, that the opponents have grown in number but it has been an extremely difficult number of years for the European Union and for many of its member states.

I have questions for both witnesses. I attended an EPP meeting last week, and this follows on from some of the comments made about the United Kingdom. Are the witnesses getting a sense that there is a growing weariness of the "our way against the rest of you" position being taken not just by the Tories but the British generally, and that the European countries are becoming fed up with it?

I agree with Deputy Timmy Dooley that it is very much in our national interest to have a strong United Kingdom within Europe. Are we getting lonely as one of the nations standing up for Britain's membership? Is there a growing sense in Europe of "if you want to go, off with you"? My second question is a bit technical, it is about a comparison between our system and the various systems of electing MEPs and the list system. The witnesses referred to the churn of membership. I suggest the reason for a low churn in Germany is that it tends to replace people at the top of their lists. I would be interested to hear the pros and cons of the list system and how it would impact in our little republic.