John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Before inviting other members to speak, I draw attention to the paragraph which states: "The committee's request in the second part seeks legal advice on the topic of PAC's legal remit. It is stated the committee wishes to seek senior counsel advice with the input of the Office of the PLA on this matter. I am of the view that there is merit in seeking senior counsel advice on the issue." There are three issues here. There is the issue of our compellability request in respect of the section 39 organisations, the issue of our compellability request in respect of the HSE SIPTU account and the third issue, the general remit of this committee and whether it must be updated because it has been the same for donkey's years.

On the first two, our legal advisers tell us that they can put forward a case for compellability on both counts that will be robust and will challenge the position of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. On the second count, they are saying to look at the remit and talk to senior counsel about that with them. On the point you make, there appears to be an agreement that we would get senior counsel opinion on it, but on the first two, which are the two applications for compellability, we must tell the legal advisers to go ahead and present us with the letter of response to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. That case is generally prepared by the clerk and then the legal advisers would look over it, put the legal language into it and submit it to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. Once we make that response, the Committee on Procedure and Privileges apparently has been given permission to have the advice of a senior counsel. Either this committee or the Committee on Procedure and Privileges will test it with senior counsel advice, so we must put forward the best legal case we can. Our legal advisers say they can do it and that they are competent, capable and independent for it. Then it goes to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, which will bring in a senior counsel to deal with those two applications.

Separate and parallel to that, we can continue to work on the remit. That is being suggested in the letters.