Mr. David Fitzsimons:

I do not think two wrongs make a right. I went to New York to listen to one of the largest property developers in the world. He took the stage after George Bush and said that in 2006 the largest shopping centre had been built in the United States, but now shopping centres are no longer fit for purpose in terms of people's need for social engagement. The Deputy spoke about online retailing, which represents a huge opportunity for town centres in the future. We will all be at home tapping away on our PCs but will desperately need social engagement and community connectivity, and town centres are best placed to provide that. That means providing an urban space that is beautiful, which is what this guy does. He puts in waterfalls, seating areas where people meet and mix and so forth, and they come. There is no problem because people feel like shopping and eating there.

The solution is not to apply a rates increase to out-of-town retailers because that would not make societal or commercial sense. What does make sense is taking the needs of town centres seriously. Giving rates breaks to retail types in which a town is deficient is one solution. A town might have more than enough telecommunications outlets or charity shops but not enough fashion outlets. It should be able to go Zara, H & M or Pamela Scott and let them set up for free.

The rates revaluation process that is sweeping the country - ongoing in Dublin, Waterford and Limerick at the moment - is a tax on town centres because there is now a direct link between the rates set and the rent in the market. The highest rents are in town centres and not in secondary locations or business parks. I was in Waterford City to hear the announcement of the rates revaluations and I feared for the safety of the guy from the Valuations Office.

It was incredulous. If that could be stopped or rebalanced in some degree, it would be a meaningful intervention, but applying car parking charges to retail parks is not.