Mr. Tony O'Brien:

That was in October, last year. As a result of that, the report was furnished to those entities – I emphasise the entities rather than the individuals – together with the statement of policy with a requirement for them to respond. As Deputy O’Donnell will recall, when we came before the committee with the report, which I think was in November, we were at a stand-off with some organisations and we had full co-operation with others. The Deputy will be only too well aware, because of the role the committee itself has played, of the difficulties we had getting some organisations to engage. I acknowledge the active involvement and support of the committee in helping us to get the attention of some of the bodies concerned. In many of those bodies we have now seen definitive progress on some of the top-ups being ended and others that are in the process of being ended. In some instances – I was at pains to explain that when we provided the committee with the report – it is not the individuals who are at fault, it is the persons who purported to provide unapproved payments. Many of the individuals may have taken jobs where they left jobs paid at close to or the same as the new topped up salary without any knowledge that they were being paid an unapproved part of their pay. There is a due process issue at stake.

Our human resources and internal audit sections have pursued this assiduously. People are working on the matter virtually continuously. However, we do not have the right to set aside a circumstance where an individual may have a legally binding contract. We are whittling down to the final few cases where that may be the case. The deadline is 1 July. Martin Wall speculated about the matter on radio this morning. There may be a necessity to engage in discussions about the legal framework and whether there are legal options available. We have not yet reached that point but it is a matter of a couple of weeks away. Barry O’Brien indicated in correspondence to each of the individuals that if they are claiming they have a legal right, or a legal obligation more particularly, to continue paying this, first of all they must prove it to the HSE. If they show sufficient cause the HSE will then engage in relation to that with the relevant Departments to seek to come to a view as to how we resolve the matter and move forward. The overall exercise has produced significant change, not just on this but in the totality of our relationship with the section 38 sector. I understand why Deputy O'Donnell would see a linkage and a connection between this matter and the other matter-----