Willie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I remember when headage and so on were introduced in respect of sheep. Coming from a drystock part of the country, all I saw in the midlands for six months was a mass invasion of sheep. Everything turned white. I use that situation as an example. I am apprehensive about what will happen in the dairy industry. There are Food Harvest 2020 targets and so on, but people might get into the industry who do not have the necessary expertise, technical abilities or appreciation of what lies ahead. The level of capital investment required is mind-boggling.

Deputy Deering referred to how dairy processors were reducing prices. Once one does it, we can be sure that the other three or four large processors will reduce their prices by the end of the week. The processors are defending this decrease on the basis of weaker international markets in the past six months. Two year ago, there was a rush into bull beef and it is now having consequences. People are picking up the pieces after significant losses. I am all in favour of the Food Harvest 2020 targets, but the Minister must ensure that Teagasc and everyone else are up to speed so that people do not walk into a disaster blindfolded. Deputy Ferris made this point. It is easy to make a considerable investment. Deputy Deering rightly referred to it as a bubble.

The Minister must continue to fight on the dairy front. If he can get the butterfat coefficient adjusted in the way he wants, it would lead to a 2% increase in the milk quota and represent a major victory. We should all support the Minister 100% in his efforts in that regard. He is making significant friendships and so on, which is how the system works. He has brought Germany, one of the large players, on board, but it is a pity that some of the others have not come on board as well.

In Europe, one needs two or three of the big players. There can be many smaller examples but the bigger players are required to bring something over the line. I wish the Minister well.
I have been a great proponent of the appeals system, and anybody reading the Dáil transcripts from 2001 or 2002 knows I spoke at length about it then. As a barrister, I had a particular interest in it. The Minister's Cork colleague, Mr. Joe Walsh, brought it through. I have had the view that there should be only one appeals system, which not only just looks independent, but is independent in practice. I have just come from a social welfare appeal this morning and that was independent; I represented a person and somebody else represented the Department. The system in question should have a quasi-judicial person from outside the agricultural sphere. As the record from 2002 shows - it is 12 years ago now - I was spokesperson for agriculture at the time and I still hold to that idea. It is funny how life can turn back in some ways. I remember attending an appeal process and setting a cat among the pigeons. I was representing somebody in a difficult appeal and I sought some record of proceedings because I intended to bring the matter further in the event of loss. An appeals process should take that into account, allowing a person the opportunity to bring it to the next stage in the event of dissatisfaction.
I am concerned about the fine, as the estimate is €170 million or €180 million. We are finding it difficult to get money to deal with issues at a human level so that is a significant sum to be absorbed from the national purse. It would be very difficult for an individual farmer to bear the brunt of this, as we know the national purse or the farmer will be the only two sources for the funding. I have a round figure and the Minister's number may be more exact, and that is why it is better for the Minister to come to the committee to inform us. Has the Minister considered how this can be appealed in order to lower the figure? This is critical to the Department's Estimates and everything could be thrown off kilter by these fines. I know it could take a while for the issue to be finalised, and the Minister, Deputy Coveney, could be the Taoiseach at that stage. The matter must be fought vigorously as the ex post factorationalisation of a position pertaining on the ground now is easy through micro-management but the Department and the farming community dealt with the issues in good faith at the time, based on the level of identification that could be worked out. People are now being punished because of better imaging, etc., so there is a strong legal argument to be made in that respect.