Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Tuesday, 13 May 2014

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Social Protection

Implementation of Junior Cycle Student Award: Minister for Education and Skills

4:30 pm

Photo of Ruairi QuinnRuairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I will go through them quickly in the order in which I took notes on each contribution. There will be a little bit of repetition.

I will provide some facts first. The change to the junior cycle has been on the cards for the past 25 years.

The attempt to get the intermediate and group certificate merged into a new junior certificate was supposed to come with a change in the way the assessment would take place, but that did not happen, and the junior certificate basically became the new intermediate certificate. The original National Council for Curriculum and Assessment, NCCA, advice was rejected by both the teacher unions and they did not support the idea in principle. They have been against the idea of a change in this system, which involves a change in the examination system, and they were opposed to the proposed changes in the curriculum. I recognise the debate we had before and the broad support in both Houses of the Oireachtas for the principle of moving on. Much of what has been said now was stated before.

Deputy McConalogue stated he is concerned for teachers, parents and pupils with regard to the independence of assessment, verification, certification and quality assurance. I am prepared to discuss all of that. Third level colleges have external examiners who provide quality assurance at the high, middle and low levels, and I have been involved with that with the school of architecture in UCD. There are multiple models around the world we can consider. This is what happens in different types of institutions at third level where there is continuous learning, and we are open to all such processes. I have been confronted by two unions which have stated they will not take part in the process, and they have been saying that for 25 years. It is a principle that they would not be judges of their own students but this is happening at the primary level, in so far as there is assessment at that level, and at third level, as we have heard.

On the specific question of history, we should nail a particular canard which, despite my frequent attempts, has not yet been dealt with. There is one subject which the Department of Education and Skills has stated is mandatory, which is Gaeilge. English and mathematics are required but not mandatory. There are approximately 730 post-primary schools, including those which emerged from the free voluntary sector made up of religious teaching orders, brothers and sisters etc., which made it mandatory for their students to do history and geography at junior level. They account for approximately 55% of the total number as there are approximately 400 of those schools. The reality is that 90% of students take history at junior level. I have not stopped history from being compulsory but if we start to make subjects mandatory, where would we stop? We would like students, teachers and schools to exercise choice, and despite what has been stated by numerous people, I have not made history non-compulsory. Anybody who knows me can see I take a particular interest in history anyway. We want students and teachers to follow whatever subjects they consider of interest.

We will return to the issue of resources but I will first deal with the short courses. We have introduced four voluntary short courses. These were to be compulsory, and in deference to the concerns expressed by teacher unions and school management bodies, they are now voluntary. We would like to get to the point where they can be available but we are not saying they are compulsory.

Deputy O'Brien raised some points regarding assessment. In June 2017, when the first year students starting secondary school next September sit the English exam, the paper will have been set by the State Examinations Commission, and 60% of total marks will come from that paper, which will be marked by the State Examinations Commission in the normal way. We can examine ways in which the process can be maintained to ensure a satisfactory transition. There are issues around assessment of portfolios and storage and we would like to discuss them, but it is very difficult to do that with people who argue they are opposed to the issue in principle and will not speak to it. Teacher representatives have come to meetings but unlike management bodies and others, they have not put in writing what they would like in terms of extra resources or different methods of assessment.

I am not sure of the precise nature of the question regarding special needs children for the priority learning units, PLUs. The PLUs focus on developing social, pre-vocational and life skills of students. There are five PLUs, which are communication and literacy, numeracy, personal care, living in a community and preparing for work. I will revert with further information on that.

Deputy Jim Daly asked how third level examinations are assessed by lecturers and teachers, and there are issues of quality assurance, anonymity and ensuring all the vulnerabilities arising from liking or disliking students can be addressed. We can borrow from international experience in that regard and see what is happening in our own post-leaving certificate courses and elsewhere.

Deputy Ó Ríordáin spoke about teachers wanting to be advocates and not judges. The language is strange as our children are not in a court of law or charged with anything. They are not being judged and they do not need advocates. They are getting very good teachers. Senator Power referred to some of the research on which the issue is based. These 12 year old students may come to a secondary school from different backgrounds, and the idea that they immediately have to get ready for the junior certificate in third year is distorting. We have evidence from the Economic and Social Research Institute to suggest it is distorting a student's behaviour, how he or she will act and the interaction with education. I have already addressed the issue of history and geography.

Senator Moran spoke about her response to the professionalism of teachers and the issue of communication from the two unions. I carefully wrote down what the Senator said, with teachers indicating this process would undermine the education standards existing at present.

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