Ms Patricia Callan:

With regard to the trust figures raised by the Deputy, the survey in question is not our survey. Rather, it is an EU survey that showed benchmarks across all of the eurozone figures. That is why it is so interesting. It is saying that 40% of people here do not have confidence going in to make bank applications. That is really where we come back to the concept of the State investment bank. The Deputy is right when he says we own AIB and that we only have two banks, but those brands have a lot of work to do to rebuild themselves in terms of confidence. There are many companies which simply do not want to go through the doors of the three main banks because they have had a bad experience and they would love something new. When the European Commission rolls into town and runs its access to finance seminars, loads of people ring me up asking about how to get hold of this money, but in Ireland, that comes through the three mainstream banks, so one just goes in and makes a normal application. One might get some of the money, but there is no clarity there. They are fully aware that they are trying to rebuild it over time, but that is why many people would welcome something fresh and new to which they can go. It might just be cosmetic, but that is what is needed to give the lift in terms of improving demand rates. Again, one of Microfinance Ireland's biggest downfalls was the fact that one had to go to one of the banks and get rejected. I know that has been amended, but someone should just be able to make an application directly. That is what people want to do.

In respect of training and upskilling, we have worked with Skillnets in Avena in respect of the programme called ManagementWorks. The Building Financial Capability in SMEs programme is excellent and we strongly advertise and endorse it. In respect of management upskilling for small companies - there are many reports on this - it is really hard to get companies to take time out and pay money to train and upskill themselves. That is a communications and messaging issue. One just needs to keep coming at people from all avenues. I would not accept unilaterally that most small businesses are not professional. They are professional. Certainly we have no fears around this in respect of our members. We are really just trying to hone and improve their skills. However, there is a class of small businesspeople outside of organisations such as those represented today who are struggling. This is why we suggested the MABS route for people who are essentially desperate and cannot afford to come to professional organisations or even accountants for help because they will ask to be paid up-front. If we want to save those companies and jobs, we need to look at a different proposition.

There is a phenomenal opportunity in respect of peer-to-peer lending. The biggest thing we need to decide is whether we need to have a regulated structure. Linked Finance certainly worked. It probably took it about three or four years to ultimately get up and running without going through a Central Bank regime, which is fine. I know this is becoming a discussion across the EU, but if one looks at the US one can see that they have been doing it for years. They are already there, are competing and have a competitive advantage. A similar situation pertains in the UK. It takes us so long to catch up and get any of these things across the board. There are four models of peer-to-peer lending. Two of them are specific to business. One is the lending product through Linked Finance, but the other is just allowing people to buy products, similar to Kickstarter in the US. Some companies here have used that very successfully. If we could get there quicker, it would be hugely desirable and would really kick-start companies and give a good bounce in general. However, we need to decide quite quickly whether we are going to go for a regulated type of platform. If not, they need to say "No" and advise people how we can implement these schemes. The most successful one in the UK involves the government underwriting the actual funds, which are then invested in businesses. That has been hugely successful.