John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Bearing in mind the cap and the difference and so on in terms of AIB versus Bank of Ireland and the Department's role in it, it is unusual that the Department would have voted for the arrangement within Bank of Ireland without making some sort of noise about it or objection to it.

In respect of mortgages and the SME sector, I acknowledge the work that Mr. Moran and his team have undertaken and the achievements within the number of years he was been working there because we are in a different place. However, we are in a different place with a set of new challenges. The new challenges relating to mortgages and the SME sector have, by and large, not been dealt with. There is a significant debt in the bank relative to mortgages and SMEs. They have not been addressed with any great speed to release these families and individuals back into the real economy to allow them to perform fully again. When I look at the amount of money being paid to the senior executives in the bank on both sides, it raises the question of why more is not being done for the SME sector and mortgages.

Some of the young people with mortgages within those banks are being dealt with in a deplorable fashion. All of us here, and I am sure I am no exception, have seen people come into our clinics whose health is now becoming an issue because of the actions of the banks, some of whom are outside the arrangement in terms of how many times they phone the person and so on. It is appalling. As it is, the lives of these people have been devastated, they see no way out and they are being offered no way out. The mortgage-to-rent scheme has just not been successful. They see no way out and the banks pursue them daily. I want to hear Mr. Moran tell me what the Department can do to make the banks respond in a real way to settle these bad debts and to deal with people realistically. The real message here is that they cannot pay. They will never pay their debts back. They are simply unable to do so and the banks do not seem to recognise that.

Quite a number of SMEs cannot pay their debts back either. We risk losing them as performers within the economy if we do not address in real terms the debts they have. Has the Department quantified within the banks or have the banks told it exactly how much money within their system is at risk because people will not be able to pay? Has the Department taken into account the fact that when people lose their homes, they qualify for rent allowance, local authority housing and all of that and that there is an associated cost to the State? We have gone way past moral hazard and I do not see the banks doing anything real in terms of mortgages for individuals and families and the SME sector in comparison with some of the write-offs the corporate world has achieved. Has the Department assessed-----