Professor Brian Norton:

The access issue is very important. An anecdote relating to the DIT was given, so I will give an example. With philanthropy we have provided access programmes and mature access programmes. People have progressed from those programmes and studied all of the way through to PhD level. What is interesting is that the retention of such students is greater than for student numbers in bulk. Therefore, we know that with appropriate tailored interventions for students, one can get very successful achievements.

The cost of higher education is a problem for a variety of student groups who do not meet a particular criterion. Returning people, children of recent migrants, and so on are an issue in this category. I do not know what the actual data would say but it is our experience that such people tend to study part-time. Another issue is the availability of part-time education and its provision. They work to provide the fees which are lower for part-time courses. There may be a whole separate issue, perhaps separate from this legislation. However, one needs to look at how such education is funded and the scale of the issue, but it is sufficient right now.

The Chair asked about the apprenticeship system. Mr. Donohoe was very modest earlier but he is part of the group that looked at a review of apprenticeships so he can speak a lot about the matter. There are a number of key things about apprenticeships. First, apprenticeships need to be ranked at a proper level in the system. They have been out of the system but they should be at levels 6 and 7 in the system. Second, apprenticeships should cover a range of levels and be much broader. Apprentices should be able to graduate from levels 6 or 7 and work all the way up to level 10. Apprenticeships should no longer be confined to a large amount of the construction and engineering disciplines and should cover a much broader range of disciplines. Third, the taught component needs to be credit bearing on the qualifications framework. That means if people lose their employment, which has happened recently in the construction sector, they should be able to bring their credit to other programmes.

The system would be improved with those kinds of changes. Perhaps a type of Schoolsnet funding model would bring employers into funding the systems. All those measures would go some way to addressing the TUI's concerns. If employers are proactive in funding the system, they may begin to address a future apprenticeship model that works and is sustainable from the student and institutional perspectives.

With regard to the issue of democratic representation, I will speak specifically about the Dublin Technological University Alliance. We are very concerned in moving from an institution that is very much rooted in the city centre, Tallaght and Blanchardstown, that we do not lose that which is critically important. We want it to continue to serve those areas. We think local representation is important, which links back to an issue we have with the academic council. The legislation, as constructed at present, has a merger stage, but it does not reconstruct the academic council to be representative of those constituent groups.

The Irish Taxation Institute has other issues with the role of the academic council which I will not dwell on too much but will single out the issues. We are less concerned about it because a successful academic institution needs many of its dimensions to work in harmony. The dimensions that must work going forward are: collegial harmony both from colleagues' and students' perspectives; the Government's perspective regarding governance, accountability and so on; management of the enterprise; the proper use of resources; and the industrial relations context. Legislation needs to be constructed in a way that ensures there is that kind of shared governance.

With regard to the issue of teachers, lecturers and so on, I have had the honour to be President for nearly 11 years in an IT context. When I joined, it was a requirement that all newly joined members of staff obtained a qualification in third level teaching and learning. It has always been the case that progression from assistant lecturer to lecturer required a balanced approach in terms of submitted contributions to teaching, research and public service. I reassure the Senator that a huge majority of our staff, following a rigorous process, passed that bar.