Dr. Brian Motherway:

I have heard that too. I do not think it is a fait accompli. The Minister has stated clearly what conditions are required. If the companies have spent money on the ground, that decision is up to them, but whether they will get a return on it remains to be seen. I take on board the thrust of the Deputy's point that there is an issue of trust. Undoubtedly that has made wind energy more controversial. As I have said a number of times, renewable energy is good for Ireland and it is a pity it has become such a questioned item.
The Deputy mentioned financial beneficiaries. We, like all State bodies, have a board comprising people with different interests and expertise in this sector. Like all State bodies, we manage that through very high levels of corporate governance, which is independently certified, measured and audited. We manage any potential conflicts of interest. I stand over all the advice, analysis and evidence we put forward. It is robust and I am very happy to debate our numbers, conclusions and advice on its merits. I very much treasure our independent status because that is our role in the landscape. One hears economists saying they do not believe in wind energy but the point I make is that wind energy is good for Ireland. We have measured it in tremendous detail and have looked at real data for Ireland. When one hears people who argue otherwise, there are two common issues to be addressed. People quote studies from other countries, but that is not valid because Ireland has a richer wind resource than other countries which makes wind energy cheaper and more effective.

It is not relevant how much wind energy costs in Germany, in the United States or in any other country. One must look at the real data from Ireland.

Electricity markets are complex. Commentators quote subsidy levels and other such issues. Wind energy is given a floor-price support to give it a certain amount of certainty. When gas prices are high, as they are at present, that floor price is almost never hit which means the subsidy level to wind energy is very small. We have modelled that in full detail, looking at full annual Irish energy data showing that wind energy is not adding to consumer prices in Ireland. In fact, if anything, it is reducing them. When one does the detailed real analysis for Ireland, that is what one finds. Sometimes when one hears arguments being made, they are, maybe, using data from elsewhere or they are using simplified assumptions. There is also a role for us to continue to fight the myths and to put out the facts as we find them in our research.

We do not really have any role in offshore oil and gas, and fracking, except to say the following on Deputy Colreavy's point about the role of fossil fuels. I envisage an ultimate future where we get none of our energy from fossil fuels. That has to be the ultimate goal, if nothing else, for reason of decarbonisation. The question is: how long will it take to get there? If we are to get there, we will have to exploit a range of renewable sources, including wind, bioenergy, solar, geothermal and offshore energy. All of these will be important in the mix. Some of them are not yet ready. Some of them are starting to become ready and affordable. I would certainly see a 100% renewable system as a long-term goal. That has to be our ambition.

On Deputy Colreavy's final question about microgeneration, I have heard the same issues where some are having trouble getting connection. Unfortunately, that is not really within our power, except to say we are working with Government. We have done a lot of analysis on the costs and benefits of microgeneration. I suppose sometimes the dilemma is, for example, in the case of wind, that a large wind farm will produce wind energy cheaper than a microgeneration scale one. The question is: who bears that cost? How does one quantify the additional local benefits, for instance, in terms of the benefit to the farmer or the local community? That remains a challenge in all countries where there are economies of scale in this sector and sometimes bigger is cheaper, although not necessarily better. That remains a policy issue. I would like to see that debate taking place in the context of the new Green Paper because there are further opportunities for microgeneration in Ireland.