John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I have one more question relating to section 38 and section 39 organisations. Was there no mechanism within the HSE to monitor all of this as it progressed over the years? We have now arrived at a situation where in regard to section 38 organisations, a considerable number of business cases have been made to the HSE to allow the organisations in question retain the arrangement they have. Will someone from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform sit with the Department of Health and the HSE to oversee these business proposals so that we can get a handle on what is going on?

Mr. Watt asked me earlier about governance issues. In our hearing with the CRC, we have seen huge governance issues, so we do not need to stray too far to find an example. In the context of bringing the matter of section 38 organisations to a close - we have yet to complete discussion on the section 39 organisations - I would hope that we would at least have an overview, not only from the Department of Health and the HSE, but from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, because they have to produce their business plans. Will the Department be sitting in on that?