John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I shall cut to the chase. The reason I asked him the question is that on 2 April it produced a document which it gave to each member of the Committee of Public Accounts. I have listened to what he had to say and was left with the impression that everything is hunky dory but there is room for change. As Mr. Watt always says, the section is moving on in a positive direction. The delegation has talked about this matter. I feel that I am not going into a policy area because I shall give him its comment on the matter. The Small Firms Association says "policy is now to effectively prohibit small companies from tendering for public contracts" but the organisation works with the Department on a working group. It further states that the policy "has the potential to eliminate small business from the tendering process" and one should operate "from a think small first perspective". Case examples were also given and one said:

When I tried to contact the person responsible for raising this tender to establish which instruments were included in "measuring instruments" – I didn’t receive the courtesy of a reply !
Our public sector procurement personnel should be much more helpful & co-operative to potential suppliers – especially small firms.

Case 5 referred to the most recent Irish Water tender where the company heard about it from a UK source in spite of the fact that it were attempting to get business from the State. Case 7 referred to attempts to convince the Department to streamline its definition of what it was buying. A firm stated the following opinion: "I know I am wasting my time trying to compete with this behaviour." In that case he is talking about the behaviour. Case 8 mentioned that one cannot be a tenderer unless one tenders for all of the products listed in the tender. Case 9 states that companies could not "meet the turnover requirements for larger tenders even though the company has the capability to meet all the requirements of the tender" and they were excluded. These are relevant cases in terms of what has been said.
Mr. Quinn gave me the idea that the Department is working directly with all of these organisations and things seem to be working okay but then the SFA highlights all of these cases. The SFA referred to Irish Water, in particular, regarding a number of issues that simply cause huge problems for the SME sector. When the SFA attempts to deal with the problem it meets the dead hand of bureaucracy and does not get anywhere. That situation has been reflected in a number of comments made here. I am not saying this; the Small Firms Association has said it. All of this is in direct contrast to what Mr. Quinn described to us at this hearing this morning.
I want to raise procurement issues with Mr. Watt. The SFA has outlined the procurement issues. Mr. Watt raised the issue of third level institutions. He also spoke about the cost to the Exchequer and productivity gains in answer to comments made by Deputy Deasy. What we have seen here, at meetings of the Committee of Public Accounts, since we started in 2011, was a continuation of what I consider to be a scandal in terms of governance of various organisations in this country. One sees the same people on boards and the same chairman or make up in most organisations. It seems those organisations have not taken any interest in the direction that the Department is going in to improve governance.
What would Mr. Watt say to a third level organisation that has not changed its auditors or legal services for a dozen years? What would he say to a third level organisation that spent €21 million on such services in a five-year period? What would he say to a third level institution that is not fully collecting its student fees? What would he say to a third level institution that pays thousands to have a painting of its president? These are issues that are real, they are live and exist. I was not going to go into this matter this morning but Mr. Watt raised the issue. Someone is not listening to him and as a result the governance and procurement issues are being ignored. The message that he is delivering is not being listened to by the organisation that I quoted and by others. The small firms and their procurement interests are not being looked after because they simply cannot get in as it is a closed shop. I thought that we were trying to break the status quoand give firms an opportunity to do business. A lot of this has been a waste of taxpayers' money.