Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I will deal with the last question first. The member states interested in the project are those with particular concerns in this area and whose own forces do not provide skill set training in these areas. The project is the coming together of particular member states in a manner that is economically wise and co-ordinated to ensure their individual defence forces either acquire or maintain skills in this area. This is important, particularly in an era when none of us is immune to terrorism. Leaving aside the gang warfare mentioned by Deputy Ó Fearghaíl and myself earlier, we do not know when an incident no one ever anticipated may occur in our country. If we do not have these skill sets, this could be a concern and problem. This skill-set is also of crucial relevance to UN peacekeeping missions. I cannot over-emphasise its importance in the context of devices. Whether we are talking about our troops in the Lebanon, on the Golan Heights or in the other 12 locations where they are engaged in UN peacekeeping, we cannot be sure when this skill may be required. It is an important skill and this project facilitates countries coming together in a way that is economically useful for the countries concerned.

In regard to whether our missions abroad are still based on UN mandates, the answer is "Yes". On the question of how all of this fits in with Ireland's general position, I suppose we can on occasion become unnecessarily concerned about our participation in the European Security and Defence Policy on the one side and neutrality on the other. The Deputy also raised issues about expenditure. Ireland's traditional policy on neutrality is completely unaffected by the treaty on the European Union, as amended in the Lisbon treaty. The treaty will not result in Ireland having to become part of any alliance or military formation. The legally binding guarantees secured by Ireland at the European Council prior to the second Lisbon treaty referendum clearly state the Lisbon treaty does not affect or prejudice Ireland's traditional policy of military neutrality. Nor does our engagement with the European Defence Agency affect our traditional policy. We are members of NATO's partnership for peace, which is focused on humanitarian intervention and peacekeeping missions, and we work with other EU member states on some of these missions. Our engagement with the EDA is valuable, because it ensures our capabilities can be maintained at the highest levels and ensures the possibility of interoperability with other member states.

In regard to military expenditure, I always wonder about questions raised on this issue. If we look, for example, at the issue of peacekeeping missions in conflict zones, we need an arms industry. We cannot send our soldiers to the Lebanon with toy guns, in ordinary family cars or without proper reinforcements. We cannot provide vehicles that do not have the necessary weaponry defence required. Therefore, if we recognise we need armies, we need an arms industry. Otherwise, we cannot operate in real situations. I doubt anybody would suggest we should send people to the Golan Heights where, unfortunately, part of the tragic Syrian civil war is being re-enacted between the official forces of President Assad and the various other groupings without them being armed. Either we must manufacture arms - we do not - or we must purchase them from people who do.

Europe has and needs an arms industry therefore. The importance of this industry was recognised in the declaration of heads of state at the December meeting of EU leaders and it contributes a great deal of employment for young people across the Union. I wonder, if Russia invaded the rest of Ukraine and positioned its troops directly on the borders of the European Union, with the threat of it perhaps invading Poland or some other EU country, whether we would just say "You are very welcome, come in" or is it important the countries faced with that position have sufficiently large armies and armaments to act as a deterrent to that sort of event. One of the difficulties is that in a perfect world no-one should have arms or need armies. I do not know when that perfect world will exist. As far as I know, it has never existed, not for as long as mankind has existed. Even in the age of the caveman, people went around with clubs beating each other's heads in.