Mr. John McGuire:

We have other costs. Our biggest cost relates to the infrastructure we have in place to run the business. We need people to sell tickets and invoice retailers and we need credit control. We have streamlined that cost over the years. There are ten people working for Rehab Lotteries now. The annual payroll is, from memory, €430,000. That includes everything: pension contributions, PRSI, etc. At one point we were turning over €10 million and making a profit each year of between €2.5 million and €3 million from our scratch cards - which were a brilliant product for us - but our business has been decimated over the years by the aggressive tactics of the national lottery on one hand, and the unfair cap on lottery prizes on the other. As the lottery market developed and people began to understand it better, the national lottery started to bring in new products. Initially it was just scratch cards but then the lotto was introduced, with mega-prizes of up to €190 million. How could we compete with that? Our sales went like that and that. When we go to the retail trade, we are stronger going with two products than with one. Will we get out of the scratch card business, even though the profitability might be great? I would say "No". Why not? Because we would always be hopeful that a fair Government at some time - either the current Administration or a future one - would address this issue and bring equality and fairness into the market. There should not be one set of rules for the State-owned national lottery, which can do anything it wants. The charities are trying to compete with their hands tied behind their backs. That is why the Government, recognising this, introduced the charitable lotteries fund.

I am very pleased to be here today in front of this committee because other committees have considered the situation and that led to the charitable lotteries compensation fund. The former Select Committee on Legislation and Security examined this matter in 1996. The committee, which was chaired by Deputy Charles Flanagan, unanimously recommended that the cap on prizes be removed. For the committee's attention, one of the members of that committee was the current Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, who at that time-----