Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the delegation and thank them for their presentation. I had the opportunity of listening to them last week as well at the briefing in Buswells Hotel. I agree with most of the contribution made by my colleague Deputy Colreavy. As I also come from County Leitrim, I am fully aware of the social importance of the continuing viability of the post office network. It is interesting that even though I would be involved actively across several counties, most of the representations I have received on this issue have come from County Leitrim. People are very concerned there about post office closures because it is a sparsely populated region. It seems that the elephant in the room is An Post. The changing nature of Irish society is such that people are voting with their feet and increasingly receive payments electronically, rather than through the post office network.

I have tried to explore the attitude of the banks and their relationship with An Post, which is rather interesting. In the submissions the banks made to this committee last year in advance of the report, all of them had a common theme. For example, AIB said that such is the importance and breadth of the existing and potential relationship between AIB and An Post, that AIB will ensure that the relationship continues to be managed at a senior level in the bank. Danske Bank viewed the services provided by An Post as crucial to its business model and meeting the needs of its customers. The bank said that the partnership with An Post has been a very important, positive, professional, solutions-oriented and customer-focused development. That is praise indeed for the post office network and its professionalism.

However, they go on to say that the introduction of a common payments system to facilitate day-to-day banking transactions between An Post and all banks is one of the initiatives that should be considered in order to expand An Post's banking services. I hope the witnesses will have a view on that.

Bank of Ireland is the most critical bank in this regard because it still has a significant network across the country. Despite the fact it has reduced its branch network, it would still be the dominant banking entity in most towns and villages. It states that it has a number of banking and commercial arrangements with An Post which are linked to the Department of Social Protection, for example, encashment of cheques which are issued by the Department of Social Protection but it states that the future of these arrangements are linked to the future payment strategy of the Department of Social Protection, which is currently under review. However, we all know the Department of Social Protection is moving towards a cashless society. Some 84% of its client base has a bank account and, increasingly, people are opting to receive payments through bank accounts. What choice, if any, does the public have in this regard? It had not occurred to me before that the Department of Social Protection is automatically and increasingly, it seems, sending payments through bank accounts rather than by other means. Do people have a choice in deciding whether they want their money paid through the post office or through the banks?

Bank of Ireland also expects that the initiatives outlined in the national payment plan will be geared towards the reduction of cash in circulation. In this context, it states the post office network should be able to diversify into areas that have less reliance on cash handling, perhaps by providing other State services that require a local physical presence and personal contact. Much of this has been pointed out by the IPU in its presentation. However, the IPU presentation also said that the Department of Social Protection has stated in the current contract document that An Post will be required to assist the Department in achieving its objectives to move to electronic payments based on the Department's e-payment strategy. The IPU then goes on to talk about it forcing people, but is it really forcing people? Is the entire trend not towards an increasingly cashless society in Ireland? The statistics prove that we Irish use cash more than any other European country and, even last week, there was a statement from Bank of Ireland referring to increasingly wanting to move towards a cashless society.

We are facing very real problems in this regard. I am curious to know what is the relationship between the IPU and An Post in terms of developing new business models. We do not seem to hear very much about new business models being developed. It seems there is, as Deputy Colreavy said, a King Canute attitude somewhere, whether within the IPU or An Post, which seem to think they can hold back this trend. It is happening and it is going to continue to increase, so how is the IPU or An Post going to address that and ensure that the post office network remains intact?

I wish to deal with the question of viability. Ultimately, it seems, the Government must make a statement that there is a strong social dimension to every policy relating to the post office network. Otherwise, if there is not that commitment in government, it would seem that the post office network is going to continue to decline. Therefore, the question of viability should not necessarily enter into it. I understand the French Government has taken that initiative over many years. As was pointed out to me - rather ironically, by a Department of Social Protection official, though not necessarily supporting the IPU view - in towns and villages across France the only entity is the post office because the French Government continues to subsidise them, but there is nothing else - no shops, no schools, no businesses except the post office. I am sure that is not a situation any Government here is going to countenance, particularly when we have severe economic difficulties and a money problem going forward. The question remains as to how the IPU can encourage a Government, whether it is this Government or the next one, to adopt a social dimension policy.

Has the IPU any comment to make on Deputy Eamon Ó Cuív's proposal last week at the briefing, which received a lot of positive reaction from the IPU representatives, that the Government in negotiating contracts under EU tendering laws should add an amendment that there has to be a diversified and inclusive network? This would prevent what happened on the driving licence issue. In other words, the way that the contract was written meant it could end up stating there would be only 30 outlets across the country when, in fact, if it was to be put in writing that there had to be an inclusive network which had to be accessible to all the population, then this would have meant An Post would have been a prime candidate to receive that contract. Does the IPU see any merit in that sort of case being made?