Lucinda Creighton (Dublin South East, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister for his patience. It has been a long hearing so far. When the chairman of GSOC came before the committee and was asked why he decided not to inform the Minister or the Garda Commissioner under section 80(5) or section 102 of the 2005 Act, he said that he believed it was the right thing to do at that time. The Minister does not seem to agree with that assessment by the chairman of GSOC. In his private meeting with him and with other members of the commission, did the Minister ask him the reason he felt he ought not inform the Minister or the Commissioner? Did the chairman elaborate any reasons for that?
In his statement last night, the Minister said the following.

The chairman, in his presentation to the joint Oireachtas committee, clearly did not accept that the technology referred to could only be obtained by government agencies, despite the statement to this effect in their security consultants' report. I did not reference it in my speech to the Dáil last week as the chairman clearly placed no reliance on that advice and this is clear from his own comments to the Joint Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions.

I assume those comments that the Minister referred to are the responses from the chairman to questioning from me at the hearing last week, when he said: "This is the world that we live in and kit that used to be only in the hands of government agencies can be replicated." I am keen to know whether, during the Minister's meeting with the ombudsman commission last week, The Minister or any of his officials at the meeting asked the chairman of the ombudsman commission or any other member of the commission about their views on the Verrimus report findings in respect of whether the specialist firm indicated this level of technology was available only to government agencies. Did any member of the commission voluntarily express the view on the Verrimus report that the commission placed no reliance on its advice? If so, could the Minister elaborate some more on what was said to him privately at that meeting? I assume that as the Minister for Justice and Equality and as the Minister for Defence the Minister regularly gets briefings from technology experts in the Army, the police force or from outside parties such that he could have reason to question the credibility of Verrimus and its findings. Will the Minister elaborate on whether he probed the matter and whether he established that there was no reliance placed by the ombudsman commission or the chairman on that advice? Can I ask a third question?