Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour) | Oireachtas source

On what is driving reform, both parties, in advance of the election, regarded the landscape we were facing as a broken economy but also as a broken policy and Administration. A reform agenda had to be at the core of recovery and that meant fixing not only the economic woes that had befallen us but also the administrative and oversight structures that had failed, as well as the political systems. That is why a Department with responsibility for reform was created for the first time in the history of the State. We are driving reform because it is an essential part of our recovery and there are different elements to it within the public service, the Civil Service and politics, a good chunk of which falls within the remit of my Department.

On whether we are creating a no-frills, Ryanair-type public service, if I can use that term, that is not what is at stake, but we need to be open to delivering services in a different way. Simply because we have done it in a certain way for 40 years does not mean that it is the only way to do it. We must learn from the best business practices which can migrate into the public service, but what underpins the public service is a public service ethic that has served the country very well. I pay tribute in particular to those public servants who kept the ship of State afloat when all systems seemed to have collapsed in the dying part of the previous Administration. They served the country very well. We are not looking to create a no-frills public service. We are looking to have a high quality public service in which everybody knows his or her job and there is clear accountability for inputs but also outcomes. I spoke yesterday to people on a local radio station who were talking about measuring inputs. The quality of the service is determined by how much money one provides for it rather than by what one gets for one's money and how the service is delivered. We need to have a much greater link between the service user, that is, the citizen and public services. That is what we are trying to create.

On the last point on from where we get the numbers and whether there is a numbers target, obviously the first days of the reform agenda had to have very much central to it a fiscal target of expenditure controls. There are only two ways to reduce expenditure - reduce numbers or pay rates - and we did both through the Croke Park agreement which had been designed by the previous Administration and the Haddington Road agreement which was negotiated by us with the public sector unions. A reduction in numbers is part of that agreement. If every business had to make changes, it would not simply cut salaries; it would cut numbers to see if it could deliver services in a more efficient way. There is no holy writ about numbers. I have said, in terms of the discussions we have had, that I want to migrate some of the savings we have made from back office supports, for example, through the shared services of PeoplePoint and the new shared payroll service, to supplement front-line services. That is why we have been able this year to restore recruitment to An Garda Síochána and give leeway to recruit extra resource teachers and special needs assistants. The numbers policy is a matter for debate in terms of what is the optimum number. For example, we said, in regard to An Garda Síochána, that we would set up a commission this year to examine what was the optimum number of gardaí that should be deployed and how they should be deployed. This should inform Government policy in that regard.