Mr. Kieran Mulvey:

Deputy Ellis has asked a number of questions, and my colleagues Mr. Treacy and Dr. May can answer some of them.

Both of us are saying that the synergies that can be achieved by having one body are inarguable in the sense that there are two bodies in sport and it is time to amalgamate them. It is also time to develop that capacity. In the future it will bring organisational strength from the point of view of all of the disciplines and will give us a totality of focus. There will, under the Bill, be a separate committee for the national campus development. As I recall, that particular functionality will continue as a particularly discrete function of the future sports Ireland.

The other capacity issues are important. I will always have the view that one needs interchangeability within an organisation whereby people can grow in the job and do not become specialists in just one area. One must try to move the specialism around. We are a small body and when we are amalgamated we will still be a small body. Under the employment control frameworks we are ten staff down without replacements and we are losing people to international bodies. Therefore, people need to be able to double up and treble up in some cases.

A lot of the issues relating to oversight and integration of sport have emerged over the past number of years, such doping, match fixing and child protection, which was the last issue mentioned by the Deputy. We have programmes for as many as those as we can. We put the programmes in, we put the training programmes in, and we remind national governing bodies of their obligations - that is legally, morally, socially and to the sport itself. The national governing bodies of the sports have themselves addressed some of the issues that occurred in the past in these areas. I do not want to go into those cases because they have been a matter of law in the past, but they are well known to us all. The bodies have really taken on board lessons from incidences of child interference in an inappropriate way and put in more robust mechanisms of vetting in accordance with the law and in the interest of the sports themselves. We have come through a bad period. One can never fully legislate for such unfortunate incidents, but they are under notice.

Dr. May has clearly done an extensive doping programme. It was so extensive that the international body, the World Anti-Doping Agency, constantly relies on us for our standard. We are one of the world's standards on anti-doping. I think our child protection laws are as robust now as we can get them in the sense of what has occurred - unfortunately a practice in the past.

With regard to the utilisation of facilities, there is great potential in the local sports partnerships to bring people, sports and facilities together. There is no point in funding high-cost facilities throughout the country without their being made available, in so far as is reasonably possible, to sports, particularly sports that do not interfere with playing pitches, such as running tracks on the side of pitches or other all-weather opportunities. More bodies are beginning to realise that State investment in capital programmes comes with a price - that it is for the community and the sport or the sport and the community. The standard approach of the National Sports Campus is that one multiplies the multiplicity of activities possible with the facilities available. To a large degree the seed money for all of these is taxpayers' money.

I am concerned about how we can maintain a high level of activity in all of our sports in the future. Sometimes we forget in this country - I have learned this over the past two or three years in the sports council - that Ireland is involved in an enormous number of sports. That is apart from our national games, which are not effectively played on a national basis in any other country. Ireland must compete internationally and is obliged, or our country demands, to have a presence at European and world level - a podium finish if possible, but certainly a presence. All of the sports have the ambition to produce champions, apart from participation.

We have the function of recognising, promoting and funding talent and providing the facilities to develop that talent. We also have a responsibility from cradle to grave to provide activities. Mr. Treacy has outlined a number of them that we have, including "Operation Transformation", trails and cycling. Last year 49,000 people had membership of an athletics club and 20,000 people were in cycling. The upward trajectory is good, but one needs to be part of a programme or plan. That does not just happen, but must be developed and brought out. Sport is not all about competition; it is about community, family, physicality and the health issues attached. Senator Eamonn Coghlan has been involved in sports promotion in the primary school sector.

I wish to raise one issue which is probably connected to my previous occupation. I am appalled at the phenomenon of sporting facilities in universities, third level institutions and secondary and primary schools being closed for four months of the year due to an insurance issue.