Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent) | Oireachtas source

Exactly. I met Mr. Philip McAnenly almost immediately following the announcement of the closure and he kindly briefed me fully on pretty well all the information that has been presented here. I remembered it point by point. The question that Senator Colm Burke raised is easily answered because it was public knowledge that Mount Carmel Hospital, which was controlled by Gerard Conlon, paid a huge price to the sisters for the hospital. Interest charges alone on that sum of money would have hung a huge albatross around its neck. In fact, the operating loss of slightly more than €1 million in the past year, given the subdued levels of occupation, almost constitute an achievement when one considers what the interest charges would have been. If one takes a rate of 4% on the guts of €60 million, which we believe was the initial figure when the loans were advanced, that amounts to €2.4 million alone in interest charges. While interest did fall with the reducing European Central Bank rates and so on, it does not take rocket science to know that the over-mortgaged or over-loaned position of the bank was the problem, not the operational matters.

I wish to double-check with the witnesses a statement by the Minister, Deputy Reilly, that the demand for maternity services, relatively speaking, has peaked and is falling as the birthrate falls. While this is known to all, there had been an orderly transition to other types of medicine. In fact, my own dear father died in Mount Carmel in March 2010 after two years of highly caring nursing.

All my children were born there.

Mr. Jimmy Sheehan, who is perhaps the leading expert on hospital operational management across any type of hospital, was involved at the establishment of the hospital in 1949 to 1950. I spoke to him only 15 days ago before he went to America and from where he has just returned, having visited the best children's hospitals in the United States with a view to making a contribution on a reconsideration of the siting of the national children's hospital. We have to stand back at this point from the nitty-gritty of decisions and look at the overview. I agree that on the face of it, 382 staff going on to jobseeker's allowances will be a cost of in the order of €7 million a year to the Exchequer. There is a once-off cost of approximately €9 million for the call on the State fund and a further shortfall in the minds of NAMA as to the acceptability or otherwise of the offer which I know was fully funded and I know had been discussed with the previously mentioned Mr. Jimmy Sheehan. He understands the operational aspects, having been a founder member of Blackrock Clinic, the Hermitage Clinic - in which he is no longer involved - as well as the Galway Clinic and other hospitals. It is a great shame and even at this stage we should have clear light on what were the key areas of decision-making. What was the offer? Why was €2 million considered to be a shortfall that would trigger a loss of €17 million in the first year of closure? Why was the whole transition to different types of medical procedures and medical nursing in the hospital stopped in its tracks? In my view, there is a big question mark and it is not satisfactory.