Michael Colreavy (Sligo-North Leitrim, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I know. Pressure is what one puts in the tyre of a car. I understand that. I do not respond to pressure. First, I would be disappointed if renewables such as wind, hydro, tidal and wave, geothermal and biomass could not be used to significantly reduce our dependence on dwindling and increasingly expensive fossil fuels. I like to see the reality of situations as well.

My first point relates to the companies themselves. There was speculation that many of the people involved were close to Government, that they were sitting on boards and advising the companies. I refer to former politicians, former advisers to Government and former civil servants and the relationship between the political and governance system and the energy companies. Could the witnesses tell me whether they have people on their boards or as advisers or consultants who were politicians?

On the export of energy to Britain, what was the nature of discussions or negotiations with the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources and-or their equivalents in Britain?

The third theme relates to leasing or purchasing land options. The witnesses explained how they identify the areas where they hope to put pylons. Have the negotiations with landowners involved goodwill payments? How much has it cost the companies to date? Are the agreements subject to planning permission being granted? Could those who signed the leases or options renegotiate or back out of the agreements?

Can they otherwise dispose of the leases or options, having signed an agreement with the witnesses' companies? What is the immediate payment required to get the commitment of the landowners? I would not pay for a site unless I had a very good nudge and wink that I would get planning permission for it. Nobody will offer to sell me a site when it might take up to seven years for planning permission to be decided on it. I do not understand that process.

There is a fourth item on which I wish to speak. I am concerned that Ireland does not have a strategy on energy, let alone on wind energy. I believe that companies that have a well-thought-out strategy can run rings around Government. When I first said that to the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, he took issue with me, but two weeks ago in response to a question he said he would produce a Green Paper on energy. A Green Paper is the vision; policy and legislation follows. Therefore, the companies are a very long way ahead of Government on this issue. That frightens me. What is the point in introducing policy and legislation if the horse has already bolted? I do not understand what is happening in that regard.

Also, there is an emerging view, and it is probably part of the same theme, on the part of some economists that wind energy will not yield the economic benefits that are being claimed by the industry, Governments and the European Union. I see the risk in Government dealing with companies that are capable of running rings around it because of a strategy, but I see another risk also. Energy companies, similar to bankers and the developers in the recent past, are rushing into an unsustainable Ponzi scheme, because if Europe decided the REFIT tariffs were to be reduced or eliminated, would the companies get involved in this area? If there was no subsidy for the development of wind energy, would we be having this discussion here? As a nation we should be getting our strategy, policy and legislation in place first and then making the decisions on it.

My final point is more an observation than a question. Mr. Swords stated that if pollution occured with fracking we should shut down the operation immediately, but if not, it should be allowed to run. He mentioned also that it appears to be operating fairly successfully in the United States. The US Environmental Protection Agency will say it is going well, but it recommended it in the first place. The companies will also say it is going very well, but there is increasing concern in the United States that three times as many rigs have to be drilled to extract the anticipated amount of gas. People living in the areas beside those rigs say it has destroyed their way of living.

I will extend an offer to the witnesses to come with me to see the area of north Leitrim and Fermanagh where fracking is proposed. Even though they are engineers they will tell me that to destroy that countryside would be worth 16 to 20 years of gas. I extend that invitation to the witnesses.