Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

We are here as the Committee of Public Accounts representing the public. Up to now, we have been doing a good job on behalf of the public we represent. The public is supportive of what has come out of various committees during recent weeks. I believe that if we now pull down the shutters in terms of particular information we have received and tell the public this is because on occasion this is a private rather than public committee, that would be damaging to the committee. This is the Committee of Public Accounts. It would tarnish the standing of this committee if we were to go down the road of saying some of our business must be done in private.

In regard to the point that the release of transcripts of private meetings or sessions would be damaging to that process, I do not believe there is ever a reason for private sessions or meetings. There is no private session in the Dáil Chamber. Committees of the Houses are supposed to be the equivalent of the Dáil meeting outside of the main Chamber. I see no reason for private sessions or meetings. That may be a little revolutionary to some people but it has been my consistent view since entering politics that the Dáil is a public venue and we are elected to act in public. I believe that is how we should proceed.

In regard to the record of the evidence, my understanding of the record of the Dáil is that it is not an absolute verbatim transcription of each individual word that has been said. The essence of the published transcript is to reflect the essence of what is said. I advise people to check that out. Many a person stumbles over a word, gets the meaning wrong or inadvertently says the wrong thing, and that is the reason that the blacks are published. It gives everybody an opportunity - and I do not think too many people avail of the opportunity - to check precisely what they said and whether that is precisely what they meant to say.

The record can reflect the essence of what was said. I would not be worried if some particular words were not exactly what was intended, once an opportunity is given to the person who said those words to ensure, before the transcript is finalised and a draft transcript issued - not redacted; I do not seek a redacted version - that they are reported correctly, and they should be given an opportunity to have the draft transcript, subject to verification by the people who spoke here. That includes everybody who spoke here. Everybody who spoke at the meeting is entitled to have a copy of the transcript, in my opinion, as well as the witness here.

I understand that many people here are concerned about the witness. We seem to be very concerned about protecting his legal rights. He is a big boy. He has legal advisers. He is a member of the Garda Síochána so he should be well able to look after his own legal rights. I appreciate that people expressed our concern for him, but it was a little bit feigned. The Chairman reads out something at the beginning of every meeting to every witness who comes in here, including that gentleman on that day. It says that the witness has "absolute privilege." Am I correct, Chairman? I think he reads out that proviso. The laws that we passed here in the Oireachtas have given absolute privilege to everything that is said in a committee. The Chairman continues in his opening remarks - and he might clarify the matter before we conclude this discussion - by stating that if a person is straying into particular ground, he or she can be directed by him, as Chairman, on behalf of the committee to desist, and if he or she does not desist then he or she will lose absolute privilege and may only have partial privilege. Everything that was said has absolute privilege. It is my understanding, based on the law of the land that we have passed here, that what is said here has absolute privilege and that Sergeant McCabe would have nothing to worry about legally even if everything he said was published and somebody had an issue with it. It would be damaging to the Committee of Public Accounts - I emphasise the words "Public Accounts" - if we were not to give each person who was at the meeting, including the members, an opportunity to review what was said and to confirm a final transcript. That should be done.