Mr. Martin Shanagher:

There is very good evidence from the United Kingdom in terms of what happened when it had this system in place for a number of years. The evidence published by the Department shows that it was not being given in rare exceptions. Mr. Whelan is right. It is too early for us to form a judgment in terms of how it will pan out in Ireland, but it is not a simple matter to legislate away for employers the objective criteria that could apply. It could be on health and safety or other grounds that it is appropriate for them to have a mandatory retirement age that is under 65 or 64 years. It is hard to legislate this away because of all the other criteria which even the European court is finding are legitimate.