Mr. John Tierney:

An analysis was carried out on those figures. The assumption, as I read it, was that 20% could be taken out of costs over five years. If we apply that pro ratain respect of staffing, it does not bring us to a figure of 1,700 because it depends on which way we devise the model. If the model is being devised as I believe Professor FitzGerald set out, on the basis of 1,700 staff in the local authorities with another quantum of staff in an outsourced model, then one would have to take the total head count involved in delivering the same services as today. That would be a figure far greater than 1,700. We should bear in mind that there would still be 2,600 other staff left in the local authorities without the job they have today in water services. Therefore, technically, we would have much greater overall cost to the economy by dealing with simply one part of the equation in that fashion.
We produced figures around the initial experience in Britain which, over ten years, saw reductions of staffing in the order of 21.5%. We have referred to Scotland previously. What we should remember about Scotland is that the set-up there does not include the billing aspect within its staffing numbers. Scotland did not get the levels down as far as 1,700 directly in any such length of time.
I suppose the position is that many things will have an impact on staff numbers over time. The committee members will be well aware and would agree that the local government sector, probably more than any other sector within the public sector, has contributed to the reductions in respect of staffing and costs. I cannot remember the figure exactly but I gather that the sector accounted for 12% of the staff but almost 25% of the reductions. It is nothing new for local government to be dealing with these issues. If we are to analyse the service in terms of what is ultimately needed, let us remember that we are coming from a reduced number already as of 1 January 2014. We have 2,000 plants throughout the country. It will take analysis and investment but there will be situations whereby, as the committee has rightly pointed out, we will have natural attrition through retirements and so on.

There could well be situations where voluntary redundancy schemes will be introduced to manage how the situation will be dealt with in the future. It is not a question that in modelling any scenarios it is assumed there will be the very same number in 2021 or 2025 when the SLA 12-year period comes to an end.

On the question about the at-risk part of performance payment for the staff in Irish Water, we gave a very detailed response in answer to a parliamentary question. The Deputy asked what will be declared at the end of any particular year. We will publish both the total amount paid out under that heading plus the average payment.

On the question about the percentage made up by water charges, we will be making a submission based on expenditure and allowed revenue. I think I described to the Deputy previously that unlike, for instance, the gas industry where it is simply based upon the charge, we have a hybrid situation with subvention and charges. Therefore, the determinants are twofold and one has to know both in order to make up the total. I am not into the world of guessing.