Mr. Chris Macey:

To answer the Chairman's point, we examined the situation in Germany because it is something the tobacco industry tends to raise. Specifically we examined it after a number of retail organisations whose interest is supposed to be in smuggling raised it on radio programmes. We found Germany does not have a mandatory school-based education programme on smoking. An analysis of the existing school-based programme found it was not effective. Germany has the same smoking rate for 12 to 17 year olds as Ireland does, which is 12%.

To address Deputy Fitzpatrick's point on what reduction we seek, I stress the crucial element of this legislation is to stop young people starting to smoke. The percentage of people who had ever smoked in Ireland in 2002 was 41% and in 2010 it was 27%. This is the figure we seek to reduce. It is almost certain to have reduced further from 27% since 2010, but I do not know the figure. It is a matter of maintaining this reduction. The youth smoking rate had fallen from 21% to 12% in 2010, and we can be reasonably confident it is lower than this now. It is a matter of maintaining the reduction of this figure.

To answer Deputy Byrne, there is no doubt that education is very important. We cannot have enough education and it is vital. We also need to take other steps, one of which is to block attempts by the industry to reel in young people. It has done so successfully for many years. We know it has incredible amounts of money and that it is ruthless and will stop at nothing. It does not care about our children's health and it is up to us to protect them with all the measures we need to do so.

Deputy Byrne mentioned she was surprised to hear people continue to smoke knowing the risks. A recent survey showed more than 50% of stroke survivors are back smoking within six months. We also know people who have had amputations because of smoking are often back smoking very quickly. This shows the hugely addictive nature of cigarettes. The most important thing we and legislators can do is to stop people starting. Once people have started they must be helped to quit and we do not do enough in this country in this regard. The quit programmes in some places throughout the country are good but in many places they are not. We need to do more. We cannot let down smokers. We have a duty of care to them.

To respond to Deputy Doherty's point, we do not wish to demonise retailers although we have serious issues about some of the representative bodies. We know most retailers are decent hard-working people who are making a living. In our opinion they have been duped for many years by the industry, particularly in terms of the bogus smuggling argument. We would reach out to ordinary retailers throughout the country and do anything to work with them to protect their businesses but also to reduce this element of it. Likewise we are not out to demonise smokers. A total of four out of five smokers want to quit and we want to help them do so. We wish the best of luck to those who decide they want to continue smoking and we hope no harm comes to them, although we know it is very likely to do so. The four out of five smokers who want to quit deserve our help and we should be doing everything we can to give it to them.