James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I think that was the last point Deputy Kelleher raised, and we will see him later, no doubt.

I want to put on record our gratitude to the men and women who work in our health service. They are working in a different way under a lot of pressure. We are trying to change the system to allow them to work in a way that allows more people to be seen more quickly and to improve outcomes for patients. That is what we are all here to do.

Deputy Sandra McLellan asked where the figure of €113 million came from. I do not mean to be rude but I told the Deputy's colleague where it came from two weeks ago at this committee. It came from a report done from by PricewaterhouseCoopers on behalf of the primary care reimbursement service, PCRS, and the HSE project team. The report referred to a figure between €65 million and €210 million being available. The sum of €113 million is in the middle of that range. I am the first to acknowledge that the study carried the caveat that a more detailed examination of the PCRS database was required. That has since been carried out and that is why I asked for the validation process to be undertaken, involving the Department of the Taoiseach and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. Arising from that, the figure changed to €23 million. That still means many medical cards will need to be reviewed, but normal probity demands that this happen. When the Secretary General at the Department of Health and the director general of the HSE are before the Committee of Public Accounts, they will get the run-through on why probity has not been done if there are medical cards that people should not have retained. The focus is an exercise in accuracy. While cardholders are legally obliged to inform the HSE of a change in circumstances that may affect their eligibility for a medical card, the Comptroller and Auditor General recently highlighted that in 2012, of 1.8 million cards in existence, just 22 were returned voluntarily. Members can see that there is a need for probity. That is not to say we are not concerned.

I would like the details of the point raised by Deputy Seamus Healy.