Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I will not address the more philosophical issues the Chairman raised. Our post-primary school system is at least 150 years old and has resulted in a typical provincial town having three or four schools, all under the patronage of the Catholic Church, with nobody in the town being under any allusion as to the social status of the Ursuline school versus the Presentation school versus the Mercy school. They might not be able to measure it but, by Jesus, they could describe it. Until we find a solution to address that reality, it is not going to change.

On the question of capacity and demand, I have heard the point raised by the Chairman raised by others on more than one occasion. An example that comes to mind is when party colleagues in the Tallaght area suggested there was no need for an additional post-primary school at Kingswood Heights, where we have a site. This was coming from councillors who were formerly members of the vocational education committee and now the education and training board, who put forward an assessment of what was needed in the area. To put it simply, they were ill-informed. They were all of a certain age, their grandchildren had already gone through the education system and that was the end of it as far as they were concerned. There was a failure to take account of the numbers of new people who had come into the area.

The Chairman might find it helpful to visit the departmental staff in Tullamore who are using the geographic information system, GIS, or to invite them to appear before the committee. This system keeps track of every one year old whose parents register him or her for child benefit. Measurements are taken on an annualised basis, so we can see how many children there are aged one, two, three and four and thus anticipate the likely demand in the catchment area.

In the case of a relatively isolated area in rural Cork such as Clonakilty, for example, it is easier to assess demand and pressure and conclude that the existing two or three primary schools will deal with the extra demand that arises. When it comes to the travel distance and time factor, all things being equal, parents will generally send their children to a local school. In my own constituency of Dublin South-East, to give an example from a very different perspective, on Haddington Road, which is just over the Baggot Street Bridge, there is a demand for 169 places in junior infants this year in a three-stream primary school. These pupils are coming from all over and include the children of immigrant workers who are employed in financial services and the health sector. There are also the children of people who were originally from Ringsend, for example, and are now living, say, in Lucan. These people are sending their children to schools near where they grew up so that a grandparent can look after them while the parents are at work. The children travel into the city with their parents in the morning and are collected in the evening from the grandparent's house. It is very hard to match demand with capacity in those circumstances. When it comes to particular principals claiming that a new school is not necessary in a particular area, that might well be their honest view. It does not, however, fit with my understanding, having explored the issues elsewhere.

The other issues the Chairman raised could provide fuel for a lengthy debate. The bottom line, however, is that we must live with the existing infrastructure and patronage structure we have inherited.