Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Let me give some examples of why I believe and I think the HSE believes - it is possibly why the Minister for Health made the comments he made earlier - there is the potential for conflict of interest in the current situation in St. Vincent's. These are not personal remarks but are about the structures which have been put in place. I want to give two examples. The first is the situation pertaining to consultants and the second is that pertaining to the mortgaging of facilities which were constructed with State assistance. I will start with the latter one. Chapter 46.3 of the Comptroller and Auditor General's report in 2011, with which the witnesses will be familiar, states:

In November 2010, SVHG opened a new private hospital on the Elm Park campus. Responding to my enquiries in relation to that matter, the HSE reported that, over a number of years, publicly-funded assets had been used as security by SVHG in return for facilities from commercial banks. The Accounting Officer stated that those arrangements included
- security granted in favour of Ulster Bank in 2002 by a subsidiary company of SVHG over a car park on the public campus, with a floating charge on the subsidiary company’s assets
- a mortgage debenture granted over certain property at the Elm Park site to Bank of Ireland in respect of the new private hospital
- a mortgage of certain property at the Elm Park site, granted by SVHG in favour of Bank of Ireland in 2009
- a mortgage debenture in favour of Bank of Ireland in October 2010 including
- a fixed charge over the entire St Vincent’s Hospital site
- a floating charge over all of the undertaking, property and assets of SVHG both present and future.

We know that once it was established, the HSE tried its best, in the interests of the taxpayer, to get some sort of hold or lien for the taxpayer. The Accounting Officer told the Comptroller and Auditor General that the deed of covenant that they managed to put in place was, in effect, the least worst option. Cathal Magee, the former head of the HSE, told this committee on 26 January that it emerged that a €200 million grant for a clinic and science building had been made to the health care group in 2004 without the funded assets being secured in favour of the State through a legal security instrument. He then said that the creation of this security made it impossible for the HSE to secure first ranking for the State over the entire public hospital. It was at that point that he referred to it being the least satisfactory option. The Department of Health and the HSE told the then Comptroller and Auditor General that the HSE could find no other example of the mortgaging of such a publicly funded facility at a voluntary hospital. In reply to my parliamentary question on the issue last night, the Minister for Health confirmed that there was no departmental or ministerial consent given to any of this. I ask the witnesses to respond.